simple Hi-Tek coating

[glockfan]

one (1) short heat cycle of Baking PC or HT coating will defeat the hardening effect instilled by quenching.
AND
Quenching is a good way to contaminate your boolits before coating.

Grmps...could you explain your point of view on contaminant transported by water ?

i mean....the explanation i make to myself is that,some fresh waters may transport some particules which may sticks to the lead , and some are free of those contaminant ?

anyways....i guess that quenching after the last hi tek coating is probably the right thing to do,and this is what i'm gonna do from now on.

[dikman]

Petander, might be a bit tricky fitting a PID to that oven .

Glockfan, not everyone has access to good clean water, much of it has a high mineral content. Basically, you don't want to risk getting anything on the boolit surface prior to coating as keeping them as clean as possible is the go.

[shootinxd]

I am having a bit of an issue, I apply 1 coat, size, apply a send coat and size again. This is exposing a small area of the bullet. Should I apply a thinned out 3rd coat to prevent leading issues? These are 9mm sized to .357" (barrel slugs right at .355") I am using the Hi Tek red and gold. All pass the wipe and smash test.

[glockfan]

I am having a bit of an issue, I apply 1 coat, size, apply a send coat and size again. This is exposing a small area of the bullet. Should I apply a thinned out 3rd coat to prevent leading issues? These are 9mm sized to .357" (barrel slugs right at .355") I am using the Hi Tek red and gold. All pass the wipe and smash test.

my buddy told me his lyman resizer is peeling the PC AND hi tek off. the lee resizing system don't .perhaps the fact the lee system resize the boolits by the bottom and the lyman 4500 and rcbs by the ogive has something to see ?? not sure it's what you're experiencing right now, but your post reminded me this conversation i got with my shooting buddy this past week end. i'm using the lee system right now, but i bought a 4500 lyman resizer coupkle weeks ago which is now waiting for me to pick it up at the store....if this is true, i'm gonna sell the lyman resizer right here on this forum at half the price lol.

[dikman]

For what it's worth I started off resizing after the first coat and then again after the second but now I just resize after the second. I couldn't see the point in resizing until I've finished coating (saved me a bit of work too). I've never had any issues with the lead showing through, resizing both .38 in a Lee sizing die and .44 in a home-made die.
If the resizing is showing lead it sounds to me like your die may have a problem?

[shootinxd]

I am using a RCBS for sizing. I think I will try the lee push through and see what happens. But don't all resizers shave the bullet?

[ioon44]

No all sizers don't shave the bullet, I use the Star for my Hi-Tek sizing and have never had this happen.
I had a Lyman 450 and tried to size some .30 cal with Hi-Tek and it pealed off the coating, I think it has to do with the size and configuration of the lube ports and quality of the die finish.
I guess one could have a custom sizer die made with out any lube ports for a Lyman/RCBS sizer.

[Avenger442]

We have had discussions on here about the sizing dies taking the coating off and needing to be polished on the inside. I use all Lee dies for sizing because when I started casting I didn't use conventional lubes. I had one Lee die that was taking the coating off and asked this forum what to do. The answer came back, polish the inside of the die with some metal polish and a polishing wool or pad mounted in a drill or dremel tool. Did that and the die stopped taking the coating off. All of my sizing dies get a polish job when I buy them now. I think Ausglock uses Mother's metal polish. I use some off brand that I picked up at the time. Wools/polishing bits can be bought off Ebay or in hardware stores here.

It also makes sense to me that if you had a lube port inside the die that it could have a slight sharp edge on it that would remove coating. If it was this problem it would probably take something a little rougher than polishing compound. Say extremely fine metal sand paper or emery cloth on a dowel mounted in a drill. This should remove the sharp edge. The sand paper could ruin the die and it would have to be carefully done a little at a time. Would probably try the metal polish first. Some of the manufacturers will swap out items you are not happy with. And I usually tell them why before swapping.

[lazs]

485 pages? love it! So a few years back I got into the whole coating thing after using a conventional lube/sizer for many years. I started with powder coat and had some success and some bad stuff. It is at the worst.. difficult to get right and adds a lot of size to bullets. Still.. it worked pretty good and I will still do it from time to time. I bought some coated bullets from Missouri bullet and then ended up buying powder and mixing as per instructions. I wish I could say that all went perfectly from the first batch. This did not happen. there is a slight learning curve to the Hi-Tek process. This thread seems to cover about everything and even stuff that ... I don't know... may not be all that big a deal?

So far... what have I found? me and the red copper do not get along nor me and the black. The red copper tends to be not a color I like (I know picky) and somewhat more 'lumpy' than others.. the black? tends to be more flat black for me. All pass the smash test.

Things I did wrong... oven was/is way off on the temp scale. bought a cheap oven thermometer and now 400 degrees on the dial is not 400.. more like 425. marked a line on the dial/plate. shook the wet bullets too long.. better they are a bit wet and air dry. This may be a tad controversial after reading so many posts but... I run the mix leaner now. More acetone. mixes that have sat for a long time? I just add an ounce of new acetone... shake it up good. Too much powder and I get lumpy bullets. for me the first coat should barely cover with some bare lead spots especially in the crimp/grease groove.

So.. what I do.. Mix a tad lean. I like a root beer brown color or the kryptonite green.. the root beer is copper and black and whatever mixed. I preheat the oven (cheap Black and Decker) doing that right now actually. Shake up my mix which is in a container that looks a lot like some condiment squeeze bottle but with Oz measurement marked on it. Squirt in plenty in the margarine tub I use. shake around till it starts to resist shaking a bit..kinda a feel thing.. dump on oven mat.. do another 50 or so the same way on another mat.. maybe another 50 or so on another and so on. this is all indoors in my kitchen by the way.. I read BB's or whatever while things are drying and heating and whatever. made a screen from maybe way too expensive mesh and put a cut up oven mat on it.. take it out of the oven and dump dried bullets onto it.. I kinda keep em apart from each other but no special care here. I check the setting on the oven and turn the timer for .... ahhh... 12 to 15 minutes.. Pull em out after and oooooow and ahhh over the color. LOL.. put the next batch in as they are most likely dry by now. so on and so on.. when the first coat bullets are cool enough to hold in your hand? next coat. My mix is lean... I admit that.. but that works best for me.. the result is that often I will do three coats to get all the bare spots coated.

Sooo.. now I got all these really neat looking bullets. I also have a lube/sizer machine that is pretty worthless to me at this point.. I have also bought the Lee push through sizers for all my calibers. Soo.. the hundreds and hundreds of bucks spent on the old machine is pretty much wasted.. and a hundred or so is now invested in Lee dies. In fact.. I have even opened a few up for bigger diameter bullets. But.. it is actually fun and not a chore. The bullets are 'slick' enough that picking them up is sometimes hard LOL... running em through the Lee dies is easy peasy.. I can do 100 before the container is full.. a second or two for each bullet.

Soo.. my conclusion after thousands of these bullets? It is a no brainer. The learning curve is almost nothing if you get a little advice. No smoke when you shoot. Accuracy and velocity is at LEAST in the conventional cast/lube range. I run em side by side with my chronometer.. I shoot from sandbags side by side at 25 yards. There is no reason in my opinion for me to dust off the cobwebs on my lube/sizer .

lastly.. I own a fair amount of revolvers. Now.. conventional wisdom says that you fit the cast/lube bullet to the chamber throat.. which.. I have always done. but revolvers I have vary quite a bit. I might have to go say .433 for one 44 mag gun and another won't accept anything bigger than .430 If I HT coat all my 44 bullets at .430... ta daaa! they all shoot good and... no LEADING and.. the guns and my hands clean up... easy peasy So yeah.. .I am hooked at this point.

lazs

[wlkjr]

I use a Lee sizer and for 9mm I coat twice then size. Have had no coating to come off. For my .45 I coat twice, size, then do a third coat. My .45 mold leaves a ridge on both sides that makes the coating come off when sizing.

[Ausglock]

I never got good results with RCBS or Lyman sizer dies with the holes for the grease lube to come out. These holes always tore the coating off.
But the Lee push through work fine.
If you have a lubesizer and want to use it for sizing coated bullets without destroying the coating, Get onto Lathesmith on this forum. He makes pushthrough dies for nearly any lubesizer. Extremely great products and if it says .3565" it IS .3565"
I use his sizer dies in the Magma Lube master/Size master.

[Grmps]

I've gone from the Lee to the NOE Bushing Push Through Size Die
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104

After the initial investment of $39.95 for the Push Through Size Die Body
the bushings are $9.75 And the Push Rod is $7.50

You only need 1 Push Rod per caliber and the Lee Pushrods will work with the NOE dies

So-- if you have/need several different diameters in (SAY) 38 caliber you BUY 1 Push Rod $7.50 once and the bushingS will cost $9.75 for each size you need

NOE has so many more sizes than Lee
NOE also offers nose sizing bushings
AND seeing you only need 1 die body and the bushings are 5/8" (16MM) long they store in a much smaller space

[ioon44]

Bushing Adapter for Star sizer, I didn't know NOE made this adapter, some thing to keep in mind if I need to set up for a different cal than I use now.

[glockfan]

I never got good results with RCBS or Lyman sizer dies with the holes for the grease lube to come out. These holes always tore the coating off.
But the Lee push through work fine.
If you have a lubesizer and want to use it for sizing coated bullets without destroying the coating, Get onto Lathesmith on this forum. He makes pushthrough dies for nearly any lubesizer. Extremely great products and if it says .3565" it IS .3565"
I use his sizer dies in the Magma Lube master/Size master.

thanks again for the infos Trevor.....what would we do without the bank of infos you really are LOL.

i was a little deceived when i learned the lyman-rcbs was a no go regarding resizing hi tek'ed or PC'ed boolits, because such lubri sizer can do it all , '''greased''' rounds , or coated , all in one machine.

i was now forced
to buy a lee press with lee resizing dies since this set up won't peel off my hi tek'ed boolits .

now it all changed with the infos you provided Trevor , i might get back on the lyman route since it seems like i can get some dies that WILL NOT peel off the coating .

will check this with the user you mentionned .

[razorfish]

I haven’t checked in on this thread in a few years but I added an additional step to my process a while back that works for me. Basically before my first coat of Hi-Tek, I process the bullets with a tablespoon of pure acetone. This helps me to judge the amount of time I have to work the Hi-Tek mix and also helps dissolve any oils on the boolits that may have been deposited by me handling them.

(Note that I use one tablespoon because I process in 15lb batches. One tablespoon is about 14.8 ML. One ML per pound of bullets. I usually cast until I have at least 45 lbs of boolits and then coat)

Anyway, works well for me especially because I may cast over the course of a couple weeks before coating and the flash time of acetone varies drastically throughout the year. I call it my “Practice Run”.



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[lazs]

I like the NOE idea with different bushings. I wish I would have known about em to begin with. I do like the Lee tho and have had really good luck so far with it.. You get no real choices tho for dia and I have bought two of several of the calibers so that I could open one up a thou or so.. I do love the idea of no nose punch and I do like the fact that the Lee has a design where the container is actually the bullet catcher too... You can do 50-100 bullets without doing anything but putting a bullet on the pusher and pulling the press arm.

lazs

[wlkjr]

I like the NOE idea with different bushings. I wish I would have known about em to begin with. I do like the Lee tho and have had really good luck so far with it.. You get no real choices tho for dia and I have bought two of several of the calibers so that I could open one up a thou or so.. I do love the idea of no nose punch and I do like the fact that the Lee has a design where the container is actually the bullet catcher too... You can do 50-100 bullets without doing anything but putting a bullet on the pusher and pulling the press arm.

lazs

Mounting the press upside down is much better.

[dikman]

I'm with him! It might be a bit of messing around sorting out the press initially, but once done it's so much easier and with a suitable container underneath you don't have to stop until you want to. Plus it's quicker.

[Grmps]

A small oven will work with smaller batches. with a small oven, you have a tendency to get dark and light spots. to help eliminate this, halfway through, shake the tray. Another thing that helps all ovens in to cover the bottom of the oven with something that will retain heat. I use ceramic barbaque briquettes, some use fire brick, pieces of metal or ? anything that retains heat and helps bring the temperature back up to 200° quickly.

Double check the ovens temperature setting with an oven thermometer and adjust the oven to get 200°. Almost all small ovens temperature settings are off.

If the boolits are clean, you shouldn't have a problem.

[lazs]

I thought about mounting the press upside down but I really already have 2 single stage presses and not really room for a third just for sizing. Plus.. it would seem a tad harder to get the push rod and die lined up? maybe not.

lazs