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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #9281
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    Boy if I poured them out of the mixing bowl any sooner then the bullet coating drips all over the place. The mixing container residue is still plenty runny when I pour out the bullets now. I can guaranty you that they are not too dry when poured out. they actually look really wet and shiny. Once the solvent evaporates they get a bit of a rough surface. Maybe it is just this color. Has anybody else used this Red Copper and have some good up close pictures of the finish product. All these pictures were taken after they were sized after final coat.

    The bullet speed coming out of the barrel that has enough energy to cycle the action is between 950 and 970 fps. I really don't see how moving the bullet any faster will prevent the coating from coming off where the lands are riding the bullet. If anything, increasing the velocity will only create more friction and heat where the lead is exposed and melt more lead to the barrel.

    "That bore part of the coating should show wear"

    I don't thing that is entirely true. If this coating is doing what it is supposed to do, than little wear should be showing on the whole bullet. Here is a bullet captured that was shot at a velocity to low to cycle the action. I don't know how slow as I was shooting it into the bullet catcher and not over the chrony.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Notice that the coating under the land on this bullet shows very little wear also. It is clearly imprinted by the land but the coating under the land is very similar looking to the coating under the groove portion in the other bullet portion.

    High pressure, low pressure...I would assume the if the bullet has a good gas seal, high or low pressure, and no gasses are coming around the base, that the coating should stick and deform with the bullet at the velocities I am pushing them. The ramp into the lands looks smooth enough to not cut the coating off. It appears as though friction is removing the coating from these bullets as all the fired bullets show above are fired from the same barrel just at different velocities. The bullet showing gas checking was a softer alloy bullet that skidded and did not have a good gas seal.

  2. #9282
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Attachment 208224
    These were green coated hitek, 2 coats, recovered from a rock pile. ~950 fps. The whitish area is the remaining coating. I've got the gold powder which like the red copper has metallic particles in it. your pic above looks better but still skidding.
    Whatever!

  3. #9283
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    PM Sent to flybyjohn

  4. #9284
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    I use Red Copper as you do flybyjohn. I cast for myself and my brother, he has a 45/70 rifle and a 460 SW revolver, I cast for my 458 WM in 5 different weights, my 375 Whelen in 2 weights, 357 Maximum in 3 weights with no problems at all. My finished coating looks pretty much as your pics show. I agree your barrel may not be shaving lead as I thought, but I would retry when you get that barrel replaced and go from there. I would not be surprised if a new barrel cured the problems. Regards Stephen.

  5. #9285
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    Just because, last night I drilled a hole in the base of a 9mm case, loaded a bullet and chambered it in the barrel. I used a brass rod to pound the bullet through the bore. Here is what I got. The one with little to no hitek missing is the 11.5 BHN and the one that is missing a little coating is the 18.5 BHN bullet.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I wanted to see if there was maybe a cutting edge or something I couldn't see that was shaving the bullet. Well there isn't, not at pounding speed that is. Maybe at a higher speed the lead might shear.

  6. #9286
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    That was clever flybyjohn and shows there is lead being displaced into the grease groove, I honestly think your experiment has made me lean even more to it being a barrel problem, the softer cast was able to be pounded though with what I believe was less resistance which allowed the coating to do its job however the harder cast resisted and the rough barrel sheared the coating off. This is all speculation on my part but until that barrel is replaced I would not point the blame to coating or anything you have done. I have driven the Lee 125gr cast at near 2700 fps from my 357 max with no leading and also no accuracy. This problem interests me and I look forward to the solution. Regards Stephen.

  7. #9287
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    A couple of months ago there was a question posed on the shorter blog concerning the speed of Hi Tek vs. conventional lubes. Someone had done some testing and noted that all things the same the Hi Tek seemed to be more accurate than LBT Blue. I had done some reading somewhere about Hi Tek vs. a conventional lube and commented that those test said the Hi Tek was able to withstand more speed.

    At the end of my comment I posed a question wondering which was faster Hi Tek or powder coating. Slide must have seen my question and offered to powder coat some of my favorite .308 bullets, Lee C309-160R, so I could test them for speed against the Hi Tek. Thanks Slide. After several weeks of mailing bullets to each other and trying to find range time I'm glad to say that I finally can report the following.

    I cast about five pounds of the Lee bullets using COWW and tin. BHN is about 13 after two weeks from coating. Mailed about 100 to Slide. Slide's bullets were coated once with a purple PC and mine had my usual three coats of HT. I used what has been one of my favorites the Gold 1035. All bullets were weight matched, 160 grain after coating, within half a grain. Sizing was checked with a micrometer before loading on both HT and PC coated bullets and it was virtually identical. All had gas checks installed.

    I started to use my usual Remington cases but noticed that I had already loaded most of them and the others had already been primed except for about 20. Since my prep of the cases might not be safe done on primed cases I decided to use 20 new Winchester cases and 10 Remington. All to be shot in five shot groups according to manufacturer. All were trimmed to the same length. I uniformed the primer hole and de-burred the flash hole. Cases were weight segregated to within a grain. And the 20 Winchester cases all weighed within a grain. The Remington were a bit heavier than the Winchester but within a grain of each other.

    Powder was 41.5 grains of H4895 and measured within a tenth of a grain for all loads. My favorite load for this bullet.

    Now to the range:

    All shots were taken in five shot groups from a lead sled to keep some of my bad shooting habits out of the equation. Distance was 100 yards.

    The answer to the question about which is faster is; they are almost identical in speed. Overall average of three five shot groups of PC and three five shot groups of HT was 2530 fps and 2524 fps respectively. Six feet per second is not a significant difference.

    One thing that was interesting is while the PC overall speeds, or SD, were a bit closer it didn't produce the best groups. Best group for the PC was 3 ¾ in. for a five shot group with another group 4in. overall. When you took out a flyer in that group it was 1 ½ in. Best five shot group for the HT was 1 ½ in. with another group 4 ½ in. overall. When you took out a flyer in that group it was 1 ¼ in.

    I am very very happy to report that neither coating appears to have left any coating or lead in the barrel. May inspect closer, but a couple of passes with a tight dry patch to take some of the fouling out and a view with the bore light in the other end shows nothing in the groves.

    Now before all you PC guys get your hackles up, I'm not saying that HT is better than PC. I might could work with the load and maybe a powder change to get the PC to do 1 ½ in. but that was not the purpose for this test. The purpose of the test and the question about which was faster was answered. All things equal, neither one.

    If you want photos of the loaded bullets and targets send me an email address on the PM. I don't post photos here. May send some to Slide and he can post.
    Last edited by Avenger442; 12-08-2017 at 02:37 AM.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  8. #9288
    Boolit Master
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    Good job Avenger! I will pm you my e-mail. I don't post photos on this site either.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  9. #9289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    A couple of months ago there was a question posed on the shorter blog concerning the speed of Hi Tek vs. conventional lubes. Someone had done some testing and noted that all things the same the Hi Tek seemed to be more accurate than LBT Blue. I had done some reading somewhere about Hi Tek vs. a conventional lube and commented that those test said the Hi Tek was able to withstand more speed.

    At the end of my comment I posed a question wondering which was faster Hi Tek or powder coating. Slide must have seen my question and offered to powder coat some of my favorite .308 bullets, Lee C309-160R, so I could test them for speed against the Hi Tek. Thanks Slide. After several weeks of mailing bullets to each other and trying to find range time I'm glad to say that I finally can report the following.

    I cast about five pounds of the Lee bullets using COWW and tin. BHN is about 13 after two weeks from coating. Mailed about 100 to Slide. Slide's bullets were coated once with a purple PC and mine had my usual three coats of HT. I used what has been one of my favorites the Gold 1035. All bullets were weight matched, 160 grain after coating, within half a grain. Sizing was checked with a micrometer before loading on both HT and PC coated bullets and it was virtually identical. All had gas checks installed.

    I started to use my usual Remington cases but noticed that I had already loaded most of them and the others had already been primed except for about 20. Since my prep of the cases might not be safe done on primed cases I decided to use 20 new Winchester cases and 10 Remington. All to be shot in five shot groups according to manufacturer. All were trimmed to the same length. I uniformed the primer hole and de-burred the flash hole. Cases were weight segregated to within a grain. And the 20 Winchester cases all weighed within a grain. The Remington were a bit heavier than the Winchester but within a grain of each other.

    Powder was 41.5 grains of H4895 and measured within a tenth of a grain for all loads. My favorite load for this bullet.

    Now to the range:

    All shots were taken in five shot groups from a lead sled to keep some of my bad shooting habits out of the equation. Distance was 100 yards.

    The answer to the question about which is faster is; they are almost identical in speed. Overall average of three five shot groups of PC and three five shot groups of HT was 2530 fps and 2524 fps respectively. Six feet per second is not a significant difference.

    One thing that was interesting is while the PC overall speeds, or SD, were a bit closer it didn't produce the best groups. Best group for the PC was 3 ¾ in. for a five shot group with another group 4in. overall. When you took out a flyer in that group it was 1 ½ in. Best five shot group for the HT was 1 ½ in. with another group 4 ½ in. overall. When you took out a flyer in that group it was 1 ¼ in.

    I am very very happy to report that neither coating appears to have left any coating or lead in the barrel. May inspect closer, but a couple of passes with a tight dry patch to take some of the fouling out and a view with the bore light in the other end shows nothing in the groves.

    Now before all you PC guys get your hackles up, I'm not saying that HT is better than PC. I might could work with the load and maybe a powder change to get the PC to do 1 ½ in. but that was not the purpose for this test. The purpose of the test and the question about which was faster was answered. All things equal, neither one.

    If you want photos of the loaded bullets and targets send me an email address on the PM. I don't post photos here. May send some to Slide and he can post.
    Avenger & Slide,
    Thank you both very much for your efforts. It is greatly appreciated.
    I am sending you both a PM.
    Hi-Tek

  10. #9290
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    Good job Avenger! I will pm you my e-mail. I don't post photos on this site either.

    Hi Slide
    please send me your email as well
    Joe

  11. #9291
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    At least you guys can get your Coating to work properly. I have a house oven for coating and at 12 min at 400F I have complete rub off. I have 2 oven Thermometers I know for sure it's At 400. I'm using indoor Range lead.

  12. #9292
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    Avenger442's photos

    Bullet Photos PC vs HT
    .

    HT vs PC HT target 1


    HT vs PC HT target 2


    HT vs PC PC target 1


    HT vs PC Pc target 2
    Last edited by Grmps; 12-09-2017 at 04:23 PM.

  13. #9293
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    Thanks Grmps!!
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  14. #9294
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    You are most welcome slide


    Quote Originally Posted by TonyN View Post
    At least you guys can get your Coating to work properly. I have a house oven for coating and at 12 min at 400F I have complete rub off. I have 2 oven Thermometers I know for sure it's At 400. I'm using indoor Range lead.
    My guess is your coating is not completely/100% dry before baking (use a fan)
    and/or your using to much coating (use less than 1 mil per pound swirl 15 seconds)

  15. #9295
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    Tony, sounds like you have the heating side sorted out, so I agree with Grmps, there's not much else it could be (assuming your lead is clean when it's coated). I just did approx. 1350 rounds of .38, 2 coats 14 batches (recycled range scrap) using my little non-convection oven. I'm pretty slack and don't measure the coating I just give a little squirt into the bucket of boolits () and I had no failures, so it's not that difficult once you understand the process - but thin coats are important.

  16. #9296
    Boolit Master
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    I have to go 15 minutes on mine. I know that sounds like too much time but my color and the coating is best at that time. Temp hangs around the 400 f mark.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  17. #9297
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
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    Slide, might depend on the oven? I do just under 2 kg at a time and my little oven heats up pretty quick, so I've found 10 mins works fine, I guess a bigger oven will have a slower re-heat time. At the end of the day it's a matter of figuring out, by trial-and-error, just what your particular setup needs to work (as we've both found out).

  18. #9298
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    Exactly, every situation is different. Not telling how many batches went back in the pot before I settled on what I am doing now. Different ovens , different electrical systems, just got to keep trying until you get it.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  19. #9299
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    I keep a close eye on my thermometers in the oven. I pulled a bullet at 12 min and it wiped off on the acetone test. I'm using a house size oven to do all my baking. If been doing PC but want this Hi_Tek to workout. I don't know how people get away with 8 to 10 min. I make sure the temp stays where it should. I use 1ML per lb. I had a convection toaster oven with a PID and it didn't work either. I will try 15 min. But I would like to see it at shorter timing.

  20. #9300
    Boolit Master
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    I don't know what to suggest to you. We have been down this road before. Just keep trying different things. Hopefully you will hit on the answer.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check