simple Hi-Tek coating

[Rich22]

I'd check your Temp with a Digi thermometer. They look over baked to me.
As to failure of wipe. How bad did it fail?
Just a hint of colour or wiped right off?

for first bake, the coating looks extremely thin to me.
Why did you mix 20 gms to 125 mls??
I alway use 20gms to 100mls.

2 Kg is about 4 1/2 Lbs.
6mls of coating to 2Kg of alloy.
1ml to 1 lb is far too little. especially if mixed 20 gms to 125mls.

Use more.....

Checked with multiple oven thermometers , thermocouple is coming soon.

Very minor color on cloth with wipe test failure of the black, almost not there.

did 20/125 for coat 1 to make sure to get a very thin coat to allow it to dry properly, I seem to have always had issues with not drying properly with the liquid.

I was going to go for coat 2 and coat 3, 1.2 ml/lb of 20/100

New info from this morning. Cooked all 3 and pulled at various times

All 3 at 10 min 30 seconds , Failed wipe

All 3 at 11 minutes Failed wipe

At 12 minutes Bronze and gunmetal pass wipe, Black 1035 fails wipe.
At 12 minutes , Smash test Bronze passes , Gunmetal I did 3 bullets,2 passed and 1 flaked, all of them "inprinted" color onto the cloth that I smashed them in

At 13 minutes, Black fails wipe test barely , Bronze and gunmetal pass wipe
Bronze and gunmetal also passed 2 smash tests each at this setting, gunmetal looks as dark as black does.

If I am having some issues with smash and drying already, can I go thicker with good consistent results? I have no issue doing 3 coats if it is needed. Gunmetal I need to work in 9mm, black and bronze are going to go primarily 30 cal rifle.

I will do more testing later, if anyone has advice , I am all ears.

[Shotgundrums]

I'd check your Temp with a Digi thermometer. They look over baked to me.
As to failure of wipe. How bad did it fail?
Just a hint of colour or wiped right off?

for first bake, the coating looks extremely thin to me.
Why did you mix 20 gms to 125 mls??
I alway use 20gms to 100mls.

2 Kg is about 4 1/2 Lbs.
6mls of coating to 2Kg of alloy.
1ml to 1 lb is far too little. especially if mixed 20 gms to 125mls.

Use more.....

"thin" coating as mentioned was my tail-chasing problem for a little while initially. While thin coats are stressed for good mechanical bond, too thin just isn't enough barrier. Using a wide 3 liter or one gallon bucket gives good, even distribution.

Im waiting on Joe to come up with the Ultimate HiTek coating that has the best of HiTek coating and the rigidity of powder coat... For those who have a gun with dimensional anomalies. Coating which can survive minor gas cutting.

I know, I know..." But the coatings have been used successfully for 20 years with so many satisfied shooters...whah..." Granted. I'm one of them. But the ultimate of coatings has to be underway. We can't stop here. Everything is subject to change and evolution. Just like the newly successful blue color coating... There's a resin emulsion out there waiting to be unveiled.

[Chief762]

I got into Hi-Tek coating over the winter. I shoot submachine guns a lot and got tired of scraping lead residue out of the Thompson compensator. After a minor investment in coating, a $40 toaster oven w/fan from Wal-Mart and a few home made wire racks, I was amazingly pleased to have the process work even better than advertised. I find that 2 pretty thin coats works best for me. I made up about 8 oz. of solution and was able to coat more than 1000 boolits, both .45 and 9mm. Very economical and easy gun cleanup. This stuff is a winner.

[slide]

Another satisfied customer!!!!!!!!!! I totally agree.

[kokomokid]

Is a convection oven requried? If so who sells a small cheap one?

[dikman]

Where I am there's no such thing as a "small cheap one"! Even used convection ovens tend to be $$, so I bought a reasonable size non-convection oven ($30). It works, BUT I can only use the middle rack as the other two positions are too close to the heating elements and cause problems. I can still do around 100 or so boolits at a time, which is fine for me. If I come across a suitable fan I'll fit it, in the meantime I'm happy enough as at least it got me started.

[slide]

A convection oven works the best because of the fan that circulates air around the bullets when they are baking. Some guys have made toaster ovens work. I bought my oven at wal-mart for $80.00. Some guys go to a goodwill or such type of store and buy ovens cheap. Craig's list is a good place to look.

[Gremlin460]

find a little desk fan you can destroy, fit the motor on the outside of your toaster oven, drill a hole into the side and fit a small tin blade on the inside on a piece of rod that runs trough the hole to the motor you mounted outside.

Instant convection air flow, it does not have to be pretty, it just has to work.

I used a second hand wall oven for my baking centre, I ripped the grill element out and fitted it into the oven near the floor, I use clay bricks as heat stabilizers. A wall oven is already well insulated, do to the fact its made to go in a wooden wall. It has a door seal, toasters normally don't.
Its bigger than a toaster... means my pot, molds, ladle, burner, scrapers and other casting stuff have their own cupboard when not in use.

Last week we had a council kerb cleanout, the local council twice a year, takes anything away residents don't need.
I saw 5 wall ovens and 2-3 ranges sitting on the side of the road , free to who ever wanted to stop and pick them up.
Yah just need to hunt around...

[Ausglock]

I currently have a Kleenmaid Wall oven torn apart in my shed. This thing has 4 heating elements. 2 in the top, 1 in the bottom and one around the circulating fan.
Ripped out all the touch screen electronics and an fitting a PID etc to control the heating. The door has a switch that stops the fan when the door is opened. I think this will be a good thing to prevent heat getting pumped out the door.
The oven is fully wrapped in Rockwool insulation.
going to have each element on separate switches to see how many elements are needed to maintain 200Deg C. May use all of them for heatup, but only 2 for production baking. this will cut the power usage.
May be able to bake 4 trays (1000 Bullets) at once every 10 minutes...

[dikman]

A conventional oven is, of course, probably the ultimate for home use and can be picked up pretty cheap (heck, I gave one away a while ago!) but then you need somewhere to keep it/use it. In my case I need something that can be moved around and doesn't take up too much space.

Ausglock, switchable elements sounds like a great idea.

Gremlin, HyTek also suggested fitting a fan like you said. I have numerous fans, of all sorts, but none that I consider suitable for this application. I'm keeping my eyes open and I'm sure something will turn up eventually.

[Gremlin460]

That sounds like a brilliant oven Trev.
The reason I doubled my elements in the oven was no because the one 1200W element couldn't do the job.. It was after all put there by factory. Let me explain my thinking on this.
By adding a second 1200w element, I have literally increased the heat that's available on demand. This injonjunction with the heat stabilizing clay bricks mean that when the PID say "hey we are 3 degrees down, need heat" 2400W adds the heat very very quickly.
When the oven was running on the single 1200w element, I had temp swings of 10-12 degrees, when the LED lit up telling me the PID had activated it took a longer period of time to return to target temp.
Now with 2400w on hand, the response time is much much faster as there is more "heat on demand" Also my temp swing came down to 3 deg.
More wattage means more power used yes?? actually no, due to the fact the respond so fast, the ON time is actually shorter for the duals than what is was for a single element heating by itself.
Now my PID pulses both elements once every few seconds to keep near perfect temp.

I think you will find the same thing Trev, your swing temp will be small, and the multi elements will just pulse occasionaly to maintain temp.

[Rich22]

Went to a decent sized batch today. Bronze 500. 3lbs coated 1ml/lb of 20/125 dilution, dried for 36 hours cooked 12 min at 400F. Passed both smash and wipe. The gunmetal and black appear to be more "finicky" than the bronze.

[Chief762]

I got my oven at Wal-Mart for about $40. Made by Oster. After just a few uses, the glass window on the door cracked and I had to replace it (window only) with a piece of sheet metal. PITA but no big deal. Oven still works great. I also use it to dry brass that had been washed.

[Ausglock]

Drying for 36 hours....... What is the ambient temp over there?
I have around 25 to 30 deg C day time temps here with around 65% RH
I can bake within 30 minutes of coating the bullets. All I have is a pedestal fan blowing cool air over the trays of bullets.Even when the RH is up around 85% and temp is 12 to 15 Deg C, the wait time to bake is only 1 hour.
My trays of bullets get laid out on an old single bed steel frame with mesh base, that allows air flow.

[Rich22]

Drying for 36 hours....... What is the ambient temp over there?
I have around 25 to 30 deg C day time temps here with around 65% RH
I can bake within 30 minutes of coating the bullets. All I have is a pedestal fan blowing cool air over the trays of bullets.Even when the RH is up around 85% and temp is 12 to 15 Deg C, the wait time to bake is only 1 hour.
My trays of bullets get laid out on an old single bed steel frame with mesh base, that allows air flow.

36 hours was not by design. I just happened to coat them on tuesday and was very busy yesterday and got to baking them this morning. I have not really played with same day coat/bake yet but I will. Doing my F to C conversion it seems it is about 24-26 C. Starting in about 6 weeks we will see 95% RH and over 30 C temps. My rack that I am drying on is 1/4 hardware cloth and I have a fan I can use on it if need be. Good for brass drying as well esp since I mounted it right over the treadmill I use to spin my tumbler

[slide]

I like those racks,good job! Hang in there,you will get it figured out. I wasn't one of those that got it right off. I have tried powdercoating, it just wasn't for me. If you have a big pile of bullets to coat Hi-Tek is the way to go. I don't pay much attention to humididty (I am in Oklahoma). Just coat them,put them on a rack with a fan on them. At about five minutes give them a shake to spread them out a little and let them dry for 20 to 30 minutes. Same as Ausglock. I think if you increase your amount of coating you will see better results. I weigh 2500 grams of bullets and use almost 1 tablespoon of 20 to 100 coating,preheat bullets and bake for 12 minutes. this is what I have settled on and it works very well for me.

[ioon44]

Drying for 36 hours....... What is the ambient temp over there?
I have around 25 to 30 deg C day time temps here with around 65% RH
I can bake within 30 minutes of coating the bullets. All I have is a pedestal fan blowing cool air over the trays of bullets.Even when the RH is up around 85% and temp is 12 to 15 Deg C, the wait time to bake is only 1 hour.
My trays of bullets get laid out on an old single bed steel frame with mesh base, that allows air flow.

I have found that on a sunny 30 deg C day that my bullet trays (1/4" hard ware cloth) laying my wooden deck can reach 50 deg C or more in 30 min or less and at that point they are ready to bake . 50 deg C is pretty warm to the touch, I use a digital thermometer to check the temp.

[Rich22]

I like those racks,good job! Hang in there,you will get it figured out. I wasn't one of those that got it right off. I have tried powdercoating, it just wasn't for me. If you have a big pile of bullets to coat Hi-Tek is the way to go. I don't pay much attention to humididty (I am in Oklahoma). Just coat them,put them on a rack with a fan on them. At about five minutes give them a shake to spread them out a little and let them dry for 20 to 30 minutes. Same as Ausglock. I think if you increase your amount of coating you will see better results. I weigh 2500 grams of bullets and use almost 1 tablespoon of 20 to 100 coating,preheat bullets and bake for 12 minutes. this is what I have settled on and it works very well for me.

Thanks, they are 48 inches long 24 inches wide. I can get about 1000 bullets on each of them to dry.

It seems I am having, for the first time in forever, failure on the wipe test. So far black failed at anything under 14 minutes and my long skinny 30 cals are actually failing with bronze @ 12 min where my 9mms are passing, both pass smash test at that so I will increase 30 cals to 13 and test that. So far I have done 20/125 1ml/lb on the first coat and 20/100 1ml/lb on subsequent coats. I will probably stay at 20/125 1 ml /lb on the first just to make absolutely sure everything dries well and bonds but I will move up to 1.25 ml/lb for coats 2 and 3 which is only slightly less than ausglock and if that works then I will be happy. So fat

Liquid black 5-1-9 , 12min @400 .75 ml/lb 1st coat 1ml/lb coats 2 and 3
Black 1035 20/125 1st coat 1ml/lb and hopefully 20/100 1.25 ml/lb for 2 and 3 14 min@400 works
Bronze 500 20/125 1st coat 1ml/lb and hopefully 20/100 1.25 ml/lb for 2 and 3, 12 min @400 for 9mm, 13 min for 30 cal
Gunmetal, who knows at this point, I may be mistaking the color and thinking it is too dark when it is correct.

[Ausglock]

Gunmetal is a very dark grey/black.
Just remember.......this coating is designed to reflect heat away from the alloy.
So each coat will (in theory), reflect heat and thus need more time to cure per coat.

2 coats at 200Deg C for 12 minutes for each works for me in my production ovens.
YMMV.

My modified benchtop oven with extra insulation only needs 9 minutes to give the same result.

I'm hoping that the 4 element wall oven I'm butchering will do the same thing in 6 or 7 minutes.
It's all about alloy temp. the temp of the air in the oven is irrelevant if you can't get the heat into the Alloy.

HITEK Joe has been pushing me to do a time/temp comparison with a sensor imbedded in the bum of a bullet and the other sensor in the oven space to compare air to alloy temp differential.

I have 2 REX C100 PID's and 2 K sensors to be used for the test.
The Sensors are 5mm dia and 15mm long, so drilling the bullet bum will be no problem.
Probably use some 230gn 45 bullets to give plenty of alloy around the sensor, rather than a 9mm bullet.
I'll do it at some stage, But I am time poor right now.

I have about 6 new Blue coatings to test for Joe and a powdered dark Green that will replace the liquid dark green.

[Rich22]

Gunmetal is a very dark grey/black.
Just remember.......this coating is designed to reflect heat away from the alloy.
So each coat will (in theory), reflect heat and thus need more time to cure per coat.

2 coats at 200Deg C for 12 minutes for each works for me in my production ovens.
YMMV.

My modified benchtop oven with extra insulation only needs 9 minutes to give the same result.

I'm hoping that the 4 element wall oven I'm butchering will do the same thing in 6 or 7 minutes.
It's all about alloy temp. the temp of the air in the oven is irrelevant if you can't get the heat into the Alloy.

HITEK Joe has been pushing me to do a time/temp comparison with a sensor imbedded in the bum of a bullet and the other sensor in the oven space to compare air to alloy temp differential.

I have 2 REX C100 PID's and 2 K sensors to be used for the test.
The Sensors are 5mm dia and 15mm long, so drilling the bullet bum will be no problem.
Probably use some 230gn 45 bullets to give plenty of alloy around the sensor, rather than a 9mm bullet.
I'll do it at some stage, But I am time poor right now.

I have about 6 new Blue coatings to test for Joe and a powdered dark Green that will replace the liquid dark green.

Understand, So for 9mm 3lbs coat 1 I am doing 12 min and it is working well, coat 2 I did at 12 min and they also passed, I will look at coat 3 and test some to see if maybe they need to go 13.

My surprise is I expected the 9mm to take longer than the 30 cals due to less surface area per mass but it looks like the exact opposite with coat 1 of the 30s needing 13 minutes. I will test 13, 1330 and 14 on coat 2 when I get to cooking them. This is with the bronze. The black 1035 is taking by far the longest, with either 9mm or 30 cal needing 14 min to pass wipe test. I just got in my K thermocouple so I am going to see what I need to do to get that to work