simple Hi-Tek coating

[Redwoode]

Hi-Tek that is...

[Ausglock]

Brown copper would be the closest to jacketed colour.

[Balta]

Anyone have pic of Brown Copper coated bullet?

[HI-TEK]

Cured properly does powder coating red copper or brown copper more closely resemble a factory jacketed bullet's color?

All the Powdered versions of the Hi-Tek coatings, should produce the same colours as the solvent based systems, as the Powdered versions contain all similar materials as the liquids, but without solvents.
Essentially, the only difference is, that powders users, prepare the liquid coating system from the powder, before using the mixture to coat.

[Redwoode]

Isn't there something with Kryptonite green that is a bit different in powder vs liquid. Seem to recall Ausglock mentioning it in a post a ways back.

[HI-TEK]

Isn't there something with Kryptonite green that is a bit different in powder vs liquid. Seem to recall Ausglock mentioning it in a post a ways back.

You are right.
The Kryptonite green is only available as a liquid. no powdered version as yet.

[Mike Malat]

I received my Red Copper powder from Gateway today 9 days after placing the order. Within their promised delivery date. It's my first time working with the product so I'd thought I'd share my experience.

I got 7oz of the product and it came in two 3.5 oz containers. Well packed as you can see. (Acetone compliments of Home Depot not Gateway. )



The instructions were well written and to ensure that they don't get lost, they're also on the label.

The powder is VERY VERY fine so keep that in mind when around fans. The cooper was easily seen within the powder.



I went out to the garage and mixed 1TBSP to 50ml of acetone. I wanted to start out with a small batch before going whole hog. I planned on coating around 100 40 cal (3 lbs) and 100 35 cal (~2lbs) of pistol boolits. Per the directions I used ~ 3cc of the solution on to the first batch of boolits and swirled away in a cool whip container. As mentioned in other posts, 30 secs later there was a noticeable change in the sound and about 15 seconds later I dumped them on a drying rack. If it wasn't mentioned numerous times I would have thought that they were not coated enough.



Above. Drying after the first coat and before going into the oven. The coating is barely visible and does not show much covering.

Humidity was down so it only took about 5 minutes before they were dry and into the oven they went. It's a $10 toaster oven from goodwill that I've been using for PC'ing with heating elements above and below but not a convection oven. Temp was controlled via the dial and I didn't use an oven thermometer. I'll be picking one up before I do another batch. They went into a hot oven for 10 mins.



Out of the oven after the first coat. They had a lot more color than I expected based on what they looked like before going in the oven. Did a wipe test and smash test and they passed. Put the batch of .40 cals into the oven while the .35's were cooling.

Applied a second coat and below are the results after baking. Wipe and smash tests passed.



3rd and final coat below. I noticed that some of the lube grooves were not covered however all of the bearing surfaces were so I considered it a success. I suspect that if I used a bit more solution when coating, I'd get complete coverage.



Overall I'm very pleased with the results. The Red Copper coating looks more like Red/bronze so I'm not sure if they got a tad over cooked or not. Since the photos were taken, I've already loaded and boxed the .40 cal boolits. I'll let them age harden for a week before sending them down range. The .35 cal 125's will be loaded in 38 spl and 357 mag for a lever action rifle. I'm curious how the 125's / coating will hold up in the 357.

Thanks for putting up with a long winded post.

[HI-TEK]

I received my Red Copper powder from Gateway today 9 days after placing the order. Within their promised delivery date. It's my first time working with the product so I'd thought I'd share my experience.

I got 7oz of the product and it came in two 3.5 oz containers. Well packed as you can see. (Acetone compliments of Home Depot not Gateway. )



The instructions were well written and to ensure that they don't get lost, they're also on the label.

The powder is VERY VERY fine so keep that in mind when around fans. The cooper was easily seen within the powder.



I went out to the garage and mixed 1TBSP to 50ml of acetone. I wanted to start out with a small batch before going whole hog. I planned on coating around 100 40 cal (3 lbs) and 100 35 cal (~2lbs) of pistol boolits. Per the directions I used ~ 3cc of the solution on to the first batch of boolits and swirled away in a cool whip container. As mentioned in other posts, 30 secs later there was a noticeable change in the sound and about 15 seconds later I dumped them on a drying rack. If it wasn't mentioned numerous times I would have thought that they were not coated enough.



Above. Drying after the first coat and before going into the oven. The coating is barely visible and does not show much covering.

Humidity was down so it only took about 5 minutes before they were dry and into the oven they went. It's a $10 toaster oven from goodwill that I've been using for PC'ing with heating elements above and below but not a convection oven. Temp was controlled via the dial and I didn't use an oven thermometer. I'll be picking one up before I do another batch. They went into a hot oven for 10 mins.



Out of the oven after the first coat. They had a lot more color than I expected based on what they looked like before going in the oven. Did a wipe test and smash test and they passed. Put the batch of .40 cals into the oven while the .35's were cooling.

Applied a second coat and below are the results after baking. Wipe and smash tests passed.



3rd and final coat below. I noticed that some of the lube grooves were not covered however all of the bearing surfaces were so I considered it a success. I suspect that if I used a bit more solution when coating, I'd get complete coverage.



Overall I'm very pleased with the results. The Red Copper coating looks more like Red/bronze so I'm not sure if they got a tad over cooked or not. Since the photos were taken, I've already loaded and boxed the .40 cal boolits. I'll let them age harden for a week before sending them down range. The .35 cal 125's will be loaded in 38 spl and 357 mag for a lever action rifle. I'm curious how the 125's / coating will hold up in the 357.

Thanks for putting up with a long winded post.

Thanks much for your post.
As a first time user of the powdered version, you have done well.
Can you please describe in much more detail about your mix, and your making it up, and appearances, and how long before you used it?

One tablespoonful I think is about 20 grams ( not 100% sure). You placed that amount of powder into 50 mls Acetone.
I am thinking, ( a bad thing, thinking) that may be not all the powder was not completely mixed into the solvent.
The reason I am thinking along this line is, that your first coat seems OK, but a little low on Red Copper colour content.

After baking first coat, the colour that seems to have developed, suggests a little over cooking, as it is more golden Tan, than a Red Copper colour. Should not be a problem.

This is overall, your pictures and descriptions, is suggesting to me, that you had dissolved some of the powder, but may be not adequately, and this is reason why you had, with time, andthe 3 coats,
( and possibly slightly over cooked), formed the Red Copper colour with a more Tan finish with final colour.

If coating after final bake passes all tests well, it should work OK.
The final coat is getting more towards the right colour, but as some tests already showed, that despite a little over-bake, the coatings should work OK.

Not wasting coating into lube groove is not a problem.
Your shooting results would be greatly appreciated.

[Avenger442]

Mike
Please give us a range report after your test. Especially on the lever action 357 mag. I'm about to load up some 44 mag for a lever action and would like to know about your experience. Don't worry about being long winded. We don't mind. Don't forget the photos.

[Alley Cat]

Has anyone ever tried using one color on the first coating followed by another color on subsequent coatings? Just curious if there is a positive effect by combining the strengths of each type (ie- non-metallic overcoated with a metallic type). Is it possible to vary the final color by blending the colors of each coat?

[HI-TEK]

Has anyone ever tried using one color on the first coating followed by another color on subsequent coatings? Just curious if there is a positive effect by combining the strengths of each type (ie- non-metallic overcoated with a metallic type). Is it possible to vary the final color by blending the colors of each coat?

Yes, that has been done many times over the years, so people "make" their "own" colour.
All colours are compatible and can overcoat to get unique finished colour.
Some pre-blend, others coat with say Black and then Gold, some mix black & gold some mix Red and gold, some mix Red copper and Black.
Main thing is if you are blending, then you must be able to as close as possible mix ratio of well mixed colours, used at the same mixture rates each time.
If you coat with one, then coat with another colour, take notes of how much of each you use, to reproduce the final colour you are happy with.

[Mike Malat]

[QUOTE]Can you please describe in much more detail about your mix, and your making it up, and appearances, and how long before you used it?/QUOTE]

Placed 1TBSP of the powder in the container along with 3 lead round balls used for agitation. I then poured the 50ml of acetone in on top of the powder, screwed on the lid and began agitating for about 5-8 secs and then removed my finger from the spout to relieve the pressure that had built up in the container. During that initial shake the solution was a bright red. I then continued to shake for about an additional 2 minutes at which time I then immediately applied ~3cc on the boolits and started to swirl. After swirling and dumping them on the rack to dry I noticed that the powder was not dissolved, it came out of suspension and settled to the bottom of the mixing container after about a minute or so. Being my first time, I was not sure if this was normal or not. Before each application, I would shake the mixture for about 30 seconds (just like a paint spray can) before pouring ~3cc into the bucket with the boolits. After the 3rd application and about an hr after I had first mixed the powder/acetone the solution would still separate after a minute or so after I stopped agitating it.

Below are two photos of the mix where you can see where the acetone and powder had separated. The first photo was taken after the 3rd application ~45-60minutes after first mixing it. The second photo was just taken, approximately 6.5 hrs after initial mixing. You'll notice that there isn't much difference between the two.

~45 minutes


~6.5hrs later



In the 2nd photo the acetone appears to be a bit darker. That is not the case, but due to the lighting conditions when the images were taken. The solution @ 6 hrs is the same color as it was an hour into the process.



If there are any other questions, please feel free to ask.

@Avenger - Weather permitting, I should have a report next week. I'm planning on going to the range tomorrow to try some PC'd .40 and .45 (45-70 out of a Marlin) tomorrow.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Mike Malat;2862315]

Can you please describe in much more detail about your mix, and your making it up, and appearances, and how long before you used it?/QUOTE]

Placed 1TBSP of the powder in the container along with 3 lead round balls used for agitation. I then poured the 50ml of acetone in on top of the powder, screwed on the lid and began agitating for about 5-8 secs and then removed my finger from the spout to relieve the pressure that had built up in the container. During that initial shake the solution was a bright red. I then continued to shake for about an additional 2 minutes,
My Reply at this point. Initial mixing may not have been adequate before using.
Most mix, and leave, with occasional mixing, and would not use fresh mixture sometimes until next day, and that way every thing is "conditioned and mixed"
Settling of colour with standing liquid is normal.


at which time I then immediately applied ~3cc on the boolits and started to swirl.
My reply, that explains why you got mainly resin coloured solution on first coat with little Red Copper.

After swirling and dumping them on the rack to dry I noticed that the powder was not dissolved,
My Reply... Not every thing dissolves and needs re-suspending just as you coat.

it came out of suspension and settled to the bottom of the mixing container after about a minute or so. Being my first time, I was not sure if this was normal or not.
My Reply... That is normal for solvent mixtures.


Before each application, I would shake the mixture for about 30 seconds (just like a paint spray can) before pouring ~3cc into the bucket with the boolits.
My Reply.... That is OK, normal procedure..

After the 3rd application and about an hr after I had first mixed the powder/acetone the solution would still separate after a minute or so after I stopped agitating it.

My reply..... that is OK and is normal.

Below are two photos of the mix where you can see where the acetone and powder had separated. The first photo was taken after the 3rd application ~45-60minutes after first mixing it. The second photo was just taken, approximately 6.5 hrs after initial mixing. You'll notice that there isn't much difference between the two.
My Reply.... The 45-60 minute and 6.5 hr mixtures are both OK and are typical.

I was just thinking that your mixture, after 2-3 minutes after mixing, (as used on first coat), may have been "not quite ready" to use, and that is why may be you did not get a better colour on first coat.

It all seems to have worked out OK, as you did eventually get closer to colour required.
I still say. you have done well for a first time user.
I hope that you are happy with the product.

~45 minutes


~6.5hrs later





If there are any other questions, please feel free to ask.

@Avenger - Weather permitting, I should have a report next week. I'm planning on going to the range tomorrow to try some PC'd .40 and .45 (45-70 out of a Marlin) tomorrow.

My replies are with your comments/

[Mike Malat]

Thanks Hi-Tek for your feedback. Very much appreciated and one of the reasons why I decided to go with your product in the first place. I read almost all of this thread before deciding to give the coating a try and placing my order with Gateway. So far I'm very happy with the results, no nasty surprises and very easy to work with. I was looking for an alternative to the lube size option and with Hi-Tek and PC I think I've found it.

I had started down the LLA route which was working well with my 45 ACP loads however not so well in my Rossi lever action in 357/38 +P velocities. I then went down the PC route which has been working well, however all the time I was thinking there had to be a quicker way than picking up each boolit and placing it on the rack. Hi-Tek takes the best of both, whats not to like.

From my reading this thread, it seems that the Red Copper is suggested for applications where you're wanting higher velocities, that where the 125gr in the Rossi will come into play. So far, all I know is that this forum has opened my mind to casting my own vs buying cast and in the process it's emptied my wallet. lol. (so far I've saved some $$$ on not buying a lube-sizer. However I did buy a lee challenger press to mount it upside down for my push through sizer dies. Another great idea.... and back to that empty wallet theme).

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Hi-Tek for your feedback. Very much appreciated and one of the reasons why I decided to go with your product in the first place. I read almost all of this thread before deciding to give the coating a try and placing my order with Gateway. So far I'm very happy with the results, no nasty surprises and very easy to work with. I was looking for an alternative to the lube size option and with Hi-Tek and PC I think I've found it.

I had started down the LLA route which was working well with my 45 ACP loads however not so well in my Rossi lever action in 357/38 +P velocities. I then went down the PC route which has been working well, however all the time I was thinking there had to be a quicker way than picking up each boolit and placing it on the rack. Hi-Tek takes the best of both, whats not to like.

From my reading this thread, it seems that the Red Copper is suggested for applications where you're wanting higher velocities, that where the 125gr in the Rossi will come into play. So far, all I know is that this forum has opened my mind to casting my own vs buying cast and in the process it's emptied my wallet. lol. (so far I've saved some $$$ on not buying a lube-sizer. However I did buy a lee challenger press to mount it upside down for my push through sizer dies. Another great idea.... and back to that empty wallet theme).

Thanks much for your blog and vote of confidence.
Looks like you have plenty of coating mixture left for coating some more cast.

Just one more question.
How did you go with sizing the final coated projectiles?
Did it affect the coating at all, and, any observations?

[leadman]

Michael Splanger, the meters I bought have been changed slightly. The new version is Extech MN35, $19.99. These are located in the Walmart auto section. The come with the K style thermocouple.
A have purchased spare thermocouple off E-bay that are identical to the ones that come with the meter for less than $2 each.

Avenger442, I did test the boolits before and after coating. After heat treating they were 35BHN, after coating they were 32 to 34 BHN.
Richard Lee's Modern Reloading manual contains a chart of boolit hardness versus strength psi and pressure max psi. This manual contains some good info in it and is not very expensive.

For a 21 BHN boolit the the max (chamber) psi is about 26,800 psi with the strength being about 31,016 psi. [Max (chamber) psi must be less than strength psi. ]

For a 33bhn boolit the max (chamber) psi is 42,256 psi with the strength being 46,951 psi.

I have found this to be a fairly close method of checking to ensure your alloy is up to the psi you are going to subject it to. For this to work the gun has to be capable of shooting accurately and not have issues like I have found with some off center chambers or no leade in the barrel.

I think I have "cheated" this chart and gone beyond the pressure listed with the coating in guns that shoot very well.

My experimenting has come to a halt for now as I think I have a bad disk in my lower back if I read the MRI correctly. Been down about 2 weeks and finally went to the VA emergency room Tuesday then had an MRI Friday. I'm on stout pain killers so do not want to be playing with gunpowder!

[Ausglock]

Mike.
When testing the powdered DRY-TEK I mixed 1 TBLSP (20gms) to 100mls of acetone.
This gave a thinner coating that allowed you to use a bit more for each coat and this got into the grooves. You are not using more coating, just more acetone to carry the coating into the grooves.
I still use this ratio for all powder testing. Even at this ratio, 2 coats is all that is needed. 3 coats is overkill.

[farmerjim]

Mike.
When testing the powdered DRY-TEK I mixed 1 TBLSP (20gms) to 100mls of acetone.
This gave a thinner coating that allowed you to use a bit more for each coat and this got into the grooves. You are not using more coating, just more acetone to carry the coating into the grooves.
I still use this ratio for all powder testing. Even at this ratio, 2 coats is all that is needed. 3 coats is overkill.

Dec 3 2013 quote
5-1-7 mix. 250 9 mm 125 gr bullets get 7 mls of coating. Easy. No rocket science needed.

I just got my Hi-Tek powder and was thinking that 20 grams to 50 ml was too concentrated. I like to use more of a dilute solution to get the Hi-Tek to cover better.

How much of the 20 grams to 100 ml are you using on 250 9mm (125 grain ?) boolits ?

[Avenger442]

Leadman
Sorry to hear about the back. Asking God to give you some help.

[Gremlin460]

. (so far I've saved some $$$ on not buying a lube-sizer. However I did buy a lee challenger press to mount it upside down for my push through sizer dies. Another great idea.... and back to that empty wallet theme).

I can help empty it... have a peek here....
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ade-auto-sizer


On another note, coated some with red I got from Joe last year that had been standing around, even after months and months , I had no issues with the coating.