simple Hi-Tek coating

[Avenger442]

Quiet pleasant here at the moment.
27 to 30deg C of a day and down to a chilly 14 deg C over night.

So that's about 89 F in the day and 57 F at night. About our normal early summer temps here in the South. How is the humidity there? That's what can be bad here.

[HI-TEK]

"I guess directed at Hi-Tech. Is it reasonable to expect , at some point based on what you know now, that this coating can perform the same or better than a copper jacketed bullet as far as accuracy? (yes I did say the Jword) If the answer is yes sales will skyrocket here in the States. If no, it still has a big market here. "

Thanks for your blog.

What I can advise is, that we never envisaged at trying to replace Copper Jacketed projectiles.
I do not think that any polymer can be made into same hardness and properties of metals such as copper film used on jacketed ammo.
I am aware, that the coatings, have been used on jacketed ammo, to reduce or have the intent to reduce Copper fouling.
The coating in fact achieved this aspect and accuracy was maintained with coated Jacketed projectiles..

Loss in accuracy using coated cast alloy, has now been confirmed by US guys, as being able to be overcome, with reasonable accuracy, but alloy of choice and sizing diameters were of importance when trying to maximise and maintain accuracy.

Loss of accuracy with coated hard cast alloys, as reported, and appears, was mainly due to changes of engineering occurring with non jacketed alloy, when comparing what was happening with jacketed alloy.
Accuracy loss was not directly due to coating failures, as coating and accuracy was maintained when same coating was used on Jacketed alloys.
I believe that postings were done by a few, who had used coating on hard cast alloys with Rifle applications.
May be those folk can re-post the results. (thanks much)

With reference to harder coatings, we sent coatings to US with request to make the coating much harder.
I believe that we have achieved an increase in hardness of the baked coating.
As these are all new products, and are in US before they are used in Australia, I have to rely on feed back from people that had tested these against out standard coatings.
Independently done tests here, (prior to our sending newer resin systems to the US), in pistol use, at major power factors showed that coatings worked just fine, great accuracy, clean guns, and low smoke.
Now I eagerly await importers and users posting their experiences with individual trials on these products.

Thanks much, I appreciate your vote of confidence.

If you plan to come down under, as Byron at OMJ gunworks says, we Aussies all are hanging on with our toes down here as we are all upside down...lol...lol...
Seriously, Australia is a big place, and it can take you years to see it all.
Beautiful country..... what else can I say....
I have been to the US, New York, South Carolina, Wilmington, New Jersey, but home is best, sorry..

[Ausglock]

Humidity is currently 65% as at 13:00 hrs

[popper]

Avenger-as others have found out, keeping alloy hardness with HiTek is a problem for rifle. HFPC you rifle and you will be happy.

[Avenger442]

I agree Hi-Tek, Home is always best. Have been to England parts of South America and about 12 of our 50 states. I would not live anywhere else but where I grew up. I still live withing 60 miles of where I was born.

For a while here in the States certain calibers of copper jacket rounds were hard to find and getting expensive. For years I shot less because of this. Reloading then casting seemed to be a way around this supply shortage demand problem.

I don't have 40 years of casting experience like some on this forum. I'm a "newbie" to casting. I don't do linotype, monotype etc.(hard alloy) casting for my rifles because they, in my opinion, don't make good hunting bullets for animals I hunt. I practice with rounds I hunt with. When you hunt, optimum is, the animal shot in the right area immediately goes down and stays down as in immediate death. This happens in most cases with small projectile becoming large projectile and leaving a large wound channel without destroying the meat. Softer lead cast and or hollow pointing can do this. Most of us that hunt have seen an animal lost after being shot. Which is the worst case. Even with copper jacketed bullets, for a variety of reasons, immediate death doesn't always happen. Hard alloy casting can also produce a bullet that is less accurate because the lead is not soft enough to help seal barrel (again my opinion). I understand lubricants such as the various grease and waxes also help seal the barrel. I don't intend my comments/opinions as an offense to you guys who hard cast. It just doesn't seem to meet what I use my bullets for. Most of my cast are straight wheel weights with about 2% tin.

I understand the vision here is lubricant not make a jacket. I'm looking for something (one thing) easy to do, inexpensive, not so messy I have to clean everything when I get through loading that can get me where I want to go casting bullets. I think this one may be it. Time and testing will tell.

Popper
I have not ruled out PC yet. I'm just not through with the HT yet. Like I said previously, I read all of the post. As you probably know, I don't need extremely high fps with 30-06 or 303 to put a deer down. Maybe I can get what I want out of HT maybe not.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Shot a ton more tonight. My steel gong is still at a friend house and I hate shooting paper so I basically hunt rocks on the 30 yard berm with my revolvers.
A 358495 hit a rock and all but exploded. It tore in to shreds and is about 1.5" long and looks like a piece of orange peel.
The coating is still intact on the outside of that bullet.
Plenty of others were picked out of the dirt from beside the rocks I was hunting. Some with just a little nose damage and perfect rifling cut in deep and coating intact.

I've been trying to create some interest on my local shooting and reloading forum. We'll see if the slackers catch on to this little gem ; )

[bosco555]

Inwanta go dwn under too for a month.

I think you'll change your mind if you come to Western Australia...especially in summer...Perfect beaches, but 40 to 45 deg C and 80-90% humidity make wanna move to Alaska....

[dverna]

Avenger,

Hi-Tek is a great pistol coating. So far, limited success in rifles IF accuracy is important. But it will not lead even at rifle velocities so it may be just fine, depending on your needs - but you need to try it.

If you only need a limited number of hunting bullets, paper patching will give jacketed performance with accuracy using a softer alloy. (there is a sub forum on paper patching) It is what I would use if I hunted. It requires no expensive equipment and a bit of patience. I would then practice with normal lubed bullets.

Another option is Dry Tumble PC. Bangerjim has a thread on it - worth reading.

Don Verna

[Avenger442]

Thanks Don for the other suggestions. I've not seen any of the methods I may try that do not have their short comings. As you know PC is not there yet for hunting. In my limited investigation it looks like it might be good for paper shooters. While I have heard of PP I have not looked into it. Will do so later, I've had people tell me it was not worth it. If normal lubes would let me reload without the mess, aggravation and cost maybe. If casting and shooting in my rifles doesn't work out I'm still going to cast for the pistols. I've already become addicted to melting lead and making those nice little pills. They feel so good when you hold them.

I probably shoot 200-300 rounds a year in practice with the 308 and 30-06, reloaded ammo. Would shoot more if I could find and afford the components / ammo. Hoping casting can give some relief in these two areas. If not will go back to jacket. I also use a 44 magnum lever action. Some of the areas I hunt in are not likely to give me a 100 yard shot and have lots of obstacles to shoot around and sometimes through and this gun is good there. It looks like this gun may be the best candidate to start loading HT for.

I've been reading this thread for some time. In all that has been said about HT I have not seen anyone explain why this coating/stain/lubricant will not at some point give the same accuracy as any other coating/stain/lubricant in rifles. Is it the pressure, length of time in the barrel, sealing of the barrel (properties that some conventional lubes have), is the lubricating just too good (loss of pressure)....? Until I see or hear a well explained why I'm going to assume that HT can be as accurate in rifles as it has been shown to be in handguns.

Want to say this a great forum for newbies. Most of the people here are a civil bunch of folks. Have seen very little flaming or ignoring those of us who don't have years of experience in casting. Any forum that has it's own "Our Chapel" has the right mission.

[Love Life]

I say that the quality of the cast boolit, and the design, are limiting factors. I believe a large bearing surface bullet with no sharp shouldered front drive band will be the ticket.

[popper]

Avenger - it's not that you need hard for hunting but for fps. The HiTek has worked for 357Mag rifle, but NOT any faster, with any accuracy. My 30/30 & 308 got coating in the bbl @ > 1300. You might get there with 250+ gr. boolits @ 1500 fps in your 06 or 303 & some of the newer HiTek coatings.

As you know PC is not there yet for hunting

Incorrect, don't know where you get this idea. Search the hunting thread and see what has been done (PC 44mag pistol for one). Don't think anyone has done a 300 yd cast PC'd shot on deer yet, @ <2000 fps? Don't think anyone has really wanted to try it with normal lube cast either. Not flaming, your comments and concepts don't jive with reality.
Please post your results.

[220]

I've been reading this thread for some time. In all that has been said about HT I have not seen anyone explain why this coating/stain/lubricant will not at some point give the same accuracy as any other coating/stain/lubricant in rifles. Is it the pressure, length of time in the barrel, sealing of the barrel (properties that some conventional lubes have), is the lubricating just too good (loss of pressure)....? Until I see or hear a well explained why I'm going to assume that HT can be as accurate in rifles as it has been shown to be in handguns.

I hate to say it but I don't think you will ever get a cast boolit to shoot as well as J word at full velocities in high intensity rifle cartridges regardless of lube or coating used.
Having said that HT has produced the best groups I have ever shot with cast in the rifles I have tried it in so in my opinion it will shoot at least as well as any other lube on a cast boolit. I haven't tried PC or paper patching.
I still haven't really pushed things but with velocities to around 2000fps I'm getting groups about 1/3-1/2 larger than I do with J word.

[Ausglock]

I do the Lee 210rnfp 44 mag bullet for handgun and lever rifle with 2 coats of red/copper or Gold 1035. Works fine in both guns. S&W M29 6" barrel for Met sil shooting is fun on rams at 200 yards.
Marlin lever gun in 44 is pushing the pills at 1800fps and accuracy is better than jacketed. Barrel stays clean and shiny.

[Moonman]

I've got some GOLD 1035 and BRICK RED materials to coat with
coming from Donnie at Bayou Bullets.

Looking forward to seeing this GLITTERING GOLD.

Told him I'm in for ZOMBIE GREEN POWDER when
his order finally arrives.

[Ausglock]

Mm.
HI-TEK Joe was saying that he received some blue ingredients yesterday in the mail. He is going to do his voodoo magic and send me some samples to try. I really hope these stay blue and don't go black like the other blues did.

[220]

Don't think anyone has done a 300 yd cast PC'd shot on deer yet, @ <2000 fps? Don't think anyone has really wanted to try it with normal lube cast either.

About to start work on a 200y HT deer load with my son.
278 275gr FP GC arrived this week, given we have had some success with 222 and a GC boolit at a touch over 2000fps I think we should be able to get 5" @ 200y from 375H&H, will have a usable 200y deer load if we can.

No trouble to get to max velocities from pistol cal lever actions with enough accuracy to take advantage of their full range.
Cant get my 357 to shoot quite as well with 180gr cast as it does with 158 J word, but a 180gr at 1550fps with 4moa accuracy will still take care of most things.
Got my son to test a few more loads the other day. I don't know if it was him or just coincidence but with the 5 loads tested 4 of them kept the first 4 shots under 2 moa with the 5th almost doubling the group size. No cleaning between groups and it did it consistently so Im blaming the shooter.

[Liberty'sSon]

Ausglock, I've got a few questions about the Breville oven. Thought I'd ask them here as others might benefit too.
Can or do you use more than the one rack it came with? I'd like to order more and run two racks if not three.
Which function setting works best? Based on reading the manual it looks like the bake function would work best for baking coating.
It appears from the manual that the countdown timer doesn't start counting down until the set temp is reached. Is this so and if so does it alter the cook time you choose? It also appears that the heat elements shut down when the time counts down to zero. Is this so?
Any other tips you could offer on the Breville would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Liberty

[BMac]

Need assistance. First time coating with Hi Tek, first coat of 124s 9mm.
How does my first coat and color look?
I'm thinking a little thick and baked a little hot?
Thanks

[BMac]

Sorry, Red Copper is my color

[Liberty'sSon]

Bmac, yep definitely too thick. Looks a little over cooked too. How long did you cook? Did the coating flake when you smashed a bullet?