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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #9141
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    I was using titegroup
    Here is a pic of a few I pulled
    I made some dummy rounds without the Lee FCD and just barely taking the flare back out but apparently just seating them is sizing the bases down to .352-.354. I am having to seat that deep to pass the plunk test

    Attachment 203575
    I was able to use titegroup with Smoke's PC without leading today. If you want to stay with titegroup & COWW, I would give PC a try. I think it's more forgiving with alloy types & lower bhn.

  2. #9142
    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    I was using titegroup
    Here is a pic of a few I pulled
    I made some dummy rounds without the Lee FCD and just barely taking the flare back out but apparently just seating them is sizing the bases down to .352-.354. I am having to seat that deep to pass the plunk test

    Attachment 203575
    Yeah you need the Lee 38 S&W expander plug to expand the brass deeper and a touch more - just buy the plug from Lee and drop it into your 9mm die. I have a friend struggling with 147s. I can't see any reason to use them other than to save powder. I loaded a few for him to test with 2.5gr Titegroup and the accuracy was ok. Those didn't tumble but just going up another 10th would produce occasional tumble and I would bet leading as well. Went up to 2.7 - lots of tumbling boolits.

    As for tempering the alloy - steel begins to temper under 400 so there is no reason to think lead wouldn't as well.

  3. #9143
    Boolit Master
    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakehouse2012 View Post
    That is a fascinating response Joe! I have been following directions with good results but have on occasion thinned the mix with more acetone then directed and now i understand why my results have been acceptable.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    That is my experience as well, too thick or too concentrated = bad news. Thinning the mix down more than recommended actually helped with the drying on my coats in the Texas heat and humidity. Took me a few try's but I should've followed the directions more closely. Still experimenting with getting my 9mm alloy to work properly with hitek, the coating is so much faster to apply than other methods I use.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

  4. #9144
    Boolit Mold
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    I got my hitek in the post late last week, thanks Joe, the first time I had the chance to try it out was today and I successfully coated 300 hundred 45.70 bullets in no time, the bullets pasted all the tests and look great in black, going to shoot them on Friday.
    I started off by warming the bullets on top of my oven before coating and dried each coat there as well, I just elevated my mesh trays a little above my oven, the hole process was that easy I had to make myself keep doing the rub and smash tests.

  5. #9145
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    I'm going from memory here so forgive if I'm wrong on any of the below.

    We had a long discussion quite a while back about the Lee factory crimp die causing scraping of the coating when round was fired. I vaguely remember Ausglock saying he didn't use it for this reason.

    Concerning loss of BHN at bake and based on some test I ran, coating and baking will generally return the bullet to what it would have been if you didn't water drop at cast or heat treat before coating. While some of the heat treating will remain it generally defeats water drop at cast. That's with COWW and tin or COWW with some lino and tin. You can water drop after coating but the best I have gained from that, depending on the alloy, is about 2BHN. Since the temperature of the lead needs to be a certain temp for a certain length of time to cure coating, my memory 356F for 8 minutes, then I suppose you could just bake at a lower temp (356F) for a longer period say 20 min. to make sure it was cured. I have never tried this since I have not had a problem with COWW, 2% tin and three coats in my handguns 45 auto, 44 magnum and special, 357 magnum and 38 and rifles .223 and .308. Joe and Trevor could probably chime in here since they do the experimentation thing and have probably tried this. And I think Trevor has shot a lot of 9mm.

    While I'm giving recollection and opinions here, I would like to say I have not had very good experience with Tite Group in the calibers I shoot. It is just too close of a measurement from a good load to a max load. Not enough adjustment between. If you have a powder measure that can get measurements closer than 1/10 grain you may have better success than I. Do I still uses it? Yes. But I hand measure every load. Tried using the Hornady measure on my progressive press and got some loads that were way too stout. The Hornady electric powder measure will do as close as 1/10 grain but there needs to be an exact measure of Tite Group. Again, my experience.

    And Slide, I don't know about Hi Tek vs PC and speed. But have seen some test data, stored somewhere on my computer I really need to get more organized, on jacketed bullets in rifles coated with Hi Tek and an increase in speed over the crono. I can't remember how much faster. What I do remember is that it was one coat and the Hi Tek was faster. Makes sense since it is basically a lubricant. Seems like Joe mentioned this coating of jacketed to keep down copper fouling a few years ago. 458 pages.........
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens..

  6. #9146
    Boolit Master
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    The Lee FC Die is a real problem with 9mm reloading. Due to the 9mm case being tapered, anything less than around 15BHN will get swaged when seating/crimping. I reload umpteen 1000's of 9mm with 135gn RN coated lead bullets and use the dillon factory crimp die. The lee got shelved long ago.

    But.... The Lee FC die works fine in 38 Super, 40 S&W, 45ACP, 38 Spl 357Mag etc etc.. it is just the 9mm that has issues.
    The Lee FC die for 357Sig is a collet crimp die and it's the duck's guts. best crimp die there is.

    Another reloading tip. if you are reloading 9mm for CZ, Glock, Tanfog, S&W M&P, size to .357. your gun and barrel will thank you. so will your target.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  7. #9147
    Boolit Master


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    I will most certainly catch heat with this post but I simplydon't have time to sit and read 458 pages of this thread. I was wondering if someone could condense the thread for me. Acetone, hardner, and powder coat material. What type of hardener?

    Ratio? I've seen everything from 1 part hardner, 5 parts acetone, 5 part powder to 1 part hardner, 7 parts acetone, and 5 parts powder. What is the correct ratio?

    Heat and cooking time... i've read and or watched video's and have seen the temp vary from 350-400 degrees and time from 8 minutes to 20 minutes. Which is correct?

    Number of coatings? One or two?

    Do you coat one or two times and then cook? or coat and cook, coat and cook?

    Sizing? size before or after coating or both?

    Help here would be appreciated. Also, where do you purchase the hardner, specific type?

  8. #9148
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Contact Donnie at hi-performance bullet coatings. He can explain everything you need to know. There are a lot of good coaters around here. The two main ones are Hi-tek Joe and Ausglock. Joe invented the stuff and Ausglock is the Yoda of coating. They will be along.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  9. #9149
    Boolit Master
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    Mate.
    HITEK isn't powdercoat.

    There are 2 different types of HITEK.
    A liquid version that needs a seperate catalyst.
    Another version that is a powdered type with catalyst included in the powder.

    Powdercoat is a whole different kettle of fish.

    Maybe you need to read the thread. "HITEK do's and don'ts"

    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    I will most certainly catch heat with this post but I simplydon't have time to sit and read 458 pages of this thread. I was wondering if someone could condense the thread for me. Acetone, hardner, and powder coat material. What type of hardener?

    Ratio? I've seen everything from 1 part hardner, 5 parts acetone, 5 part powder to 1 part hardner, 7 parts acetone, and 5 parts powder. What is the correct ratio?

    Heat and cooking time... i've read and or watched video's and have seen the temp vary from 350-400 degrees and time from 8 minutes to 20 minutes. Which is correct?

    Number of coatings? One or two?

    Do you coat one or two times and then cook? or coat and cook, coat and cook?

    Sizing? size before or after coating or both?

    Help here would be appreciated. Also, where do you purchase the hardner, specific type?
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  10. #9150
    6bg6ga,
    No heat here......I think you may be confusing Hi-Tek Supercoat and industrial powder coating.
    Hi-Tek Powder has the catalyst (hardner) built in. Powder must be liquefied with a solvent (Acetone or MEK)
    Hi-Tek liquid comes with the catalyst in a separate container. Liquid is a concentrate and must be reduced with a solvent (Acetone or MEK) to the desired consistency.
    Both liquid and powder based Hi-Tek come with directions.

    Temperature and time in oven varies greatly with ability of the oven to achieve and maintain the desired temp. Hi-Tek must achieve 185 C (365F) for 2 minutes to properly bond to the alloy.
    With many difference in thermostats, wattage, insulation of oven etc. many folks use a PID to accurately achieve and maintain temp. Amount of alloy placed in oven should be consistent as ovens will certainly respond differently to different loads. A convection type oven with good airflow helps maintain equal heat distribution.

    Hi-Tek is a coat, cure, coat, cure process.
    Most folks size after the second coat. No harm is done sizing after the first coat and reapplying Hi-Tek for a second coat as long as no contamination from bullet lube etc is left on bullet from sizing operation.

    Hope this helps clear up any confusion. If you have any other questions please feel free to call me or email me.
    hiperformancebulletcoatings@gmail.com
    225-324-4501

  11. #9151
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    I know you don't want to breathe the hi tek powder, I read the instructions and used a dust mask when mixing. My question is there any concern about the fumes generated from baking? I use a toaster oven in my outbuilding and when baking. I'd rather not have to bake outside if it's not that big of deal

  12. #9152
    Shot some 300 Blackout tonight with lee 312-155 coated in Hi-Tek
    some without gas check and some with. No leading at all. 18 grains of CFE BLK for about 1800FPS or so.
    Can't complain about that.

  13. #9153
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
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    MAGA, I've noticed there is some outgassing while cooking (plus I can smell it!) so I do mine outside, under cover. I did some inside a small shed once, next to an open door, but I prefer it outside. As long as you're in a well ventilated place inside it should be fine.

    6bg6ba, I started off sizing after the first coat but now I do it after the second, as this avoids any possibility of contamination prior to the second coat and lets me apply a light loobing to help with re-sizing. Works for me.

  14. #9154
    Boolit Master benellinut's Avatar
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    Don't know if I'd want to breath any leftover acetone evaporating from an oven..... As Ausglock says, an inexpensive fart fan with one short section of pipe to go through the shed wall (and maybe put inside an upside down box with short sides to simulate an above the stove vent), should be enough to suck the fumes outside. Or buy a cheap above the stove vent, but a cheaper fart fan would cost less and with a little tinkering, it should do the trick.
    Be careful what you wish for!

  15. #9155
    Boolit Master


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    Ok, Hi-tek is different from powder coating. I have on hand a 1lb container of Harbor Freight powder coat that I would assume needs a hardner and a carrier in order to coat the bullets.

  16. #9156
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    Ok, Hi-tek is different from powder coating. I have on hand a 1lb container of Harbor Freight powder coat that I would assume needs a hardner and a carrier in order to coat the bullets.
    Mate.
    If you have Harbor Freight Powdercoat, You might want to ask the questions of the Powdercoating people on the Powdercoating threads.
    Not the HITEK coating threads...
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  17. #9157
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Mate.
    If you have Harbor Freight Powdercoat, You might want to ask the questions of the Powdercoating people on the Powdercoating threads.
    Not the HITEK coating threads...
    I see that now. Powder coat is simply coating and baking for 20 minutes. Hi-Tek is a different method of applying a liquid coating with hardner and baking about 8 minutes if I read correctly.

    I will try the Harbor freight method first simply because I have a lb of powder already. I will compare the industrial method and results to the Hi-Tek method. Right now I see the advantages to the Hi-Tek method in that the bullets look like they will be more uniformly coated as a result of several coatings then a final baking. The negative I seem to see is the Hi-Tek seems to be more costly from the prices I see for the material and the number of bullets that can be coated.

  18. #9158
    Boolit Master
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    20 grams of HITEK powdered coating mixed with 100mls of Acetone will do 2 coats on 2100 9mm bullets.
    Cheap as...
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  19. #9159
    Boolit Master benellinut's Avatar
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    Would be interesting to see a poll on how many tried both methods and went with HiTek By all means, you've got the powder, might as well try it, unless it's returnable or if you have to spend more money to apply it.... Then try HiTek, you can by a small container pretty cheap. http://hi-performancebulletcoatings....ercoat-powder/
    Be careful what you wish for!

  20. #9160
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    A straight up poll would have to be taken with a grain of salt since, for what ever reason, some are trying to sway someone one way or the other. My way is better than your way thing. And you know what they say; opinions are like mouths, everybody has one.

    But it might still be an interesting exercise if we put some confirming facts on it and put it in another thread. Make it objective rather than subjective. Such as mentioned verifiable cost of doing each including all accessories and materials. Have never PCed but would think from what I know of having watched PC that the cost difference would have to be in the 1/10 of a penny range and probably not worth mentioning, my "opinion". How much is tin foil? Look of the bullet for those that must have pretty bullets to show at the range, with photos of course. I've seen some really pretty PC. Makes me want to buy another Vera Bradly purse. For my wife of course! This leaves me out since I don't post photos anymore. Labor intensity/time just tumble and dump vs the set 200 .223 on their end after coating with powder, my understanding there may be a better way. Accuracy at the range including fps and distances with small group photos. For me, this end result is the necessary thing. There are probably others....... There are bound to be pluses and minuses to both. Minus for both is they require baking i.e. electricity. Don't see myself baking bullets over an open flame. I'm sure there is someone out there who would create a wood fired oven for either coating $$$. It was good enuf for Grandmother. Solar will not keep up in locations other than Arizona here in the US. We haven't seen much sun this summer.

    Don't see many participating in this thread because it would not be a subjective opinion and would require a good bit of documentation to make it really an objective opinion. I would start it, if there is not one already, but I don't post photos anymore and I don't PC. If I come across a bit negative on PC I don't intend to be. Like I said, I've never tried it. Just watched a few videos and read up on it. And Popper, I really did mean it in the beginning of my coating experience when I said I might try it someday.

    There is probably a thread somewhere out there about why I started coating instead of the grease/wax methods, too. They are probably the best to know for the no power situation. Or maybe paper patch? And I have some in storage for that use.

    This probably qualifies as the kind of subjective opinion that we normally get. I do Hi Tek because that is what I found to use as a lube when I started casting. I've never used anything else in my handguns and rifles. Properly applied it has passed all of the test for me that I can see any other lube for others passing under the same conditions. Compared to most it has done better than what I have seen verified from others. It will give you an edge in some areas. It's not as messy as most. Not as labor intensive. Less costly when compared to what you spend on equipment and lubricant with others. Will give you more shots between a real cleaning, my opinion from use not verified against other coatings or lubes.

    The accuracy that I have had with it, while not as consistent as factory match ammo, has been outstanding. In .308 four bullets in under 1/2" and 1" overall for five shots at 100 yards is my best. Confirmed with the next range trip when nothing with the same load was over 1 1/2" at 100 yards. And most of the bullets in each group were hitting under an inch. Dang flyers. Speeds around 2600 fps. Of course there are a lot more things that go into accuracy than the coating or lube you are using. For instance, recently had a bad day at the range. Groups were all on paper but terrible compared to the above. Came back to find that the bullets were not the same as I had been using and I'm going to have to make some adjustments for that lot. What was working before with the load and bullets I was using will not work with these bullets. May have to use these for hunting. From what I have read consistent attention to doing the same thing again with the same components is always needed for accuracy. Sometimes I'm just not going to take the time to make sure I'm being consistent.

    I say why not, you guys that do both, let's have some objective polling. Might be interesting as benellinut said. Probably not going to get me to make good on my "I'll try it someday". But might. Tell us when you start the thread.

    For you guys just starting with Hi Tek, my objective opinion is it works as well as anything else you will find and better than some.
    Last edited by Avenger442; 09-14-2017 at 12:20 PM.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens..

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check