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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #12821
    Boolit Master
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    Joe, contradiction to itself is a good way to describe Hi-Tek, Hard yet malleable when tested with hammer, self lubricating, and resistance as pointed out. There lays the problem of testing the BHN, on what product do we put it in order to test the BHN. I think the only way to test BHN would be to coat something that the coating could be peeled from, perhaps zink sheeting, if the coating could be built up enough maybe then it could be tested. I may be wrong but I feel that even if BHN can be measured it will be of little use to us as casters because of the contradiction of Hi-Tek itself. Bit like the air we breath, we know its there but can't see it. I doubt the pencil test will work as I think Hi-Tek is way harder than any pencil, of cause I could be wrong. Regards Stephen

  2. #12822
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Stephen, I agree 100%. But, when I get something on my mind I have to keep trying. Even if we find out what purpose will it serve? We will have learned a little more. Maybe part of the selling point. I know powder coaters like powder coat because they can shoot a softer alloy because of the bhn of powder coat. Maybe that was what I was thinking of. I will keep trying.
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  3. #12823
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    HI-Tek hardness testing

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Cohen View Post
    I think the only way to test BHN would be to coat something that the coating could be peeled from, perhaps zinc sheeting, if the coating could be built up enough maybe then it could be tested. I may be wrong but I feel that even if BHN can be measured it will be of little use to us as casters because of the contradiction of Hi-Tek itself. Bit like the air we breath, we know its there but can't see it. I doubt the pencil test will work as I think Hi-Tek is way harder than any pencil, of cause I could be wrong. Regards Stephen
    Stephen
    I had suggested to Slide to fill a Silicone small ice tray pocket with powder. Then bake it for at least 10 minutes or more. Time did not matter. I was hoping for a lump thick enough to test hardness. If I recall correctly, when trying to remove the finished baked product, it shattered.
    I don't know all the details of dimensions after baking. I was hoping that we may get about a 1/4 inch thick fused solid that can be BHN tested.
    What is of concern is, that BHN test tool is essentially a penetrometer. Pressure to force test point into baked Hi-Tek may simply shatter the lump.
    I hope that Slide has some success..


    Slide, you mentioned BHN of powder coating. What is the BHN of powder coat that has convinced users of suitability?

    Any one has any information about BHN hardness of
    1. Powder Coat
    2. Copper Jacket metal
    3. Copper Plating metal, after deposition.
    Last edited by HI-TEK; Yesterday at 04:40 AM.

  4. #12824
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    Slide, I hope you work out how to do it, if it wasn't for those like you who hate to give up, we would still be chucking rocks. Regards Stephen

  5. #12825
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Joe, if my info is correct powder coat runs around 26-28 bhn, copper jacket runs around 30 bhn. Copper plating is so thin evidently it can't be measured. I did a little more searching on pencils and found out a lot of powder coating companies use them to test powder coat. They have a little gizmo with a wheel on it. It is designed for flat surfaces. Would you know what that thing is called?
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  6. #12826
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    Joe, if my info is correct powder coat runs around 26-28 bhn, copper jacket runs around 30 bhn. Copper plating is so thin evidently it can't be measured. I did a little more searching on pencils and found out a lot of powder coating companies use them to test powder coat. They have a little gizmo with a wheel on it. It is designed for flat surfaces. Would you know what that thing is called?
    Slide, it would be interesting to learn what they used.
    I am thinking it may be a Shore Durometer type D, which was used for plastics and coatings.

  7. #12827
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Joe, found this online,thought you might find this interesting.

    Pencil# 6B 4 to 5 bhn

    5B 7 to 8 bhn

    4B 9 bhn

    3B 10 bhn

    2B 11 to 12 bhn

    B 13 bhn

    HB 14 to 15 bhn

    F#2 16 to 18 bhn

    H 20 to 22 bhn

    2H 26 to 28 bhn

    I will have a set of pencils in a couple of days, coming off of amazon,will let you know what I think I find out!
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  8. #12828
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Back on idea of testing without gas check. I've repeated this story several times so forgive if you have read before. Back several years ago a guy that was reading our post wanted to use Hi Tek in his M1A. He asked me if I had ever tried to shoot Hi Tek .308s without the gas check. At the time I was shooting loads that would have given me guesstimated 2700+ fps. Didn't have a way to check the speed back then. After several checks of speeds with the Lab Radar and Hi Tek they may have been closer to 2800 fps. It does give you a bump up on speed. Anyway, I shot 10 rounds of the Lee C309 160R coated with three coats of Hi Tek 1035 Gold liquid without the gas checks. There was light leading about the last inch of the barrel in the Remington 700. By the way, this bullet coated with Hi Tek has given me the most accurate loads in my rifle at a more sedate speed of around 2600 fps. The lead was about 13 BHN.

    Back then I had not learned much about shooting lead. But my conclusion then was that it was unwise to shoot Hi Tek coated without gas checks at speeds that you would not use with other methods of lubrication without the check. Some time after that I thought it might have been the fit of the bullet in the barrel. With a gas check mold the tail of the bullet is smaller without the check. So the tail of that bullet might not obdurate enough to fit the barrel and it may have been gas cutting. But if it was gas cutting wouldn't it have shown up sooner than the end of the barrel?

    My thinking now, to do a test gas check vs no gas check and Hi Tek, is that you would have to have two molds just alike except one for gas check and one for bullets without. And a rifle bullet of the smaller calibers .30 caliber and down, .223 would be good. Rifle because you can push it faster and longer time in the barrel. Smaller caliber because there is more stress to the lead on a smaller surface area when the bullet is fired. More stress more heat. My thinking. Which isn't always correct.

    Lee doesn't make a rifle bullet mold without gas check, with the exception of a 30 caliber boat tail, until you get to the 375 Winchester. My guess is that they have a good reason for that. Someone could have a custom mold made. Or it might be cheaper to modify a mold to remove the gas check bump.

    What's your thinking?
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  9. #12829
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    I think NOE has or had molds that had both gas check and no gas check molds in the same blocks. I will check and see.
    Last edited by slide; Yesterday at 04:26 PM. Reason: spelling
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  10. #12830
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Sold out Avenger,I only saw one a 46 grain.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  11. #12831
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Yeah, modifying an aluminum mold is probably the best way. I'm just not sure I could do it without ruining the mold.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  12. #12832
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Where's Ausglock when you need him? I think he has done what you are talking about.
    Last edited by slide; Yesterday at 05:50 PM.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  13. #12833
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    I think it's like 6AM over there
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  14. #12834
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    Where's Ausglock when you need him? I think he has done what you are talking about.
    Slide
    Ausglock seems to have reduced his input some, and I noticed his absence more and more.

  15. #12835
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    Avenger442, your findings are much the same as mine, I have not done much with cast under .357 and I do find a gas check is not needed on even my 357mag and maximum rifle loads with velocity to 2,400fps in max with 158gr lee. I had a Lyman 156gr mould which I did remove the gas check ring from after finding there was no need for a check for my use, of cause that 156gr mould now drops a nice 172gr cast which also shoots well as a plain base. I have a Lee plain base 240gr plain base in 375 and an RCBS 150gr gas check both shoot well in my 375 Whelen at around 1,800fps, yet I do get a little leading in last couple inches of barrel with the RCBS without gas check, I think the fast 1/12 twist and the powder I used may account for some of that and further testing is needed. The only rifle I do use gas checks in is my 458wm and it just plain shoot better with them like 1 1/4''groups at 100mtres are the largest it has produced. I have a 320gr plain base CBE mould for the 460SW and accuracy is outstanding with no leading at all, I have also removed the gas check ring from an RCBS 230gr .452 RN mould for the 460SW with same results. When I get back to testing 30 calibre I will be using my Omark44 as its accuracy is known. I also coat my rifle cast 3 times and have found as you did that Hi-Tek gives the best from all barrels it is fired in. PS as for removing gas check rings I used a Dremel tool and it is something you don't want to rush. Regards Stephen

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check