RotoMetals2Titan ReloadingADvertise hereRepackbox
WidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyLee PrecisionInline Fabrication

Page 640 of 642 FirstFirst ... 140540590630631632633634635636637638639640641642 LastLast
Results 12,781 to 12,800 of 12824

Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #12781
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,482
    Yes I'm just experimenting with the bismuth I have. It has been made into shot alloy,probably with added tin. Pure bismuth melts around 270C or so.

    I just wanted to see if Hi Tek bonds to bismuth and yes,it does. To be continued... I'll make my own alloy with less tin so it melts higher.


  2. #12782
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    "Sweet Home" Alabama
    Posts
    802
    I may have missed it but, did you say what the hardness of the bismuth alloy was?

    This probably comes under the heading of something I might experiment with, like the addition of copper to the alloy, but not use. It's always a good idea to have a plan B. But wheel weights are still out there. Roto Metals still sells casting alloy. And, because I only cast for myself, I have stores that would last me the next twenty years.

    Roto Metals list bismuth bullet casting metal at about $15 + a pound and lead hard ball at about $3 + a pound plus shipping of course. My wheel weights cost me about $0.40 a pound plus and couple hours of my time and $1 worth of gas. So no comparison in the cost category.

    There has been some experimenting with casting bullets out of zinc. This would probably not be able to be used with the Hi Tek.
    Last edited by Avenger442; 01-14-2020 at 02:11 PM.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  3. #12783
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,482
    My bismuth here is 20 BHN and brittle.

    I wanted to try Hi Tek coating bismuth before ordering alloy from Rotometals... their 10% tin alloy melts a bit low,too,let's see.

    At least I can make lead-free pistol ammo now,fwiw.


  4. #12784
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,482
    Guess what colour combination?




  5. #12785
    Boolit Master




    HI-TEK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Guess what colour combination?




    My colour mix guess is
    First picture is TRUBLU plus TMG Gold
    Second picture is TRUBLU plus Modified TMG Gold.

  6. #12786
    Boolit Master




    HI-TEK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    My bismuth here is 20 BHN and brittle.

    I wanted to try Hi Tek coating bismuth before ordering alloy from Rotometals... their 10% tin alloy melts a bit low,too,let's see.

    At least I can make lead-free pistol ammo now,fwiw.


    I know that Lead alloy with more than 20BHN hardness was coated and used successfully in Rifle ammo.
    If Bismuth/alloy, hold up the high energy deformation, it also may work with Rifle, but not sure, and be very careful about such use.

  7. #12787
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,429
    I wonder if the biggest issue with using it in rifles could be the melting point. It melts lower than lead alloys do, wonder if that could be an issue? Unless you can alloy it with other metals to get the melting point closer to lead.

  8. #12788
    Boolit Master




    HI-TEK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazza View Post
    I wonder if the biggest issue with using it in rifles could be the melting point. It melts lower than lead alloys do, wonder if that could be an issue? Unless you can alloy it with other metals to get the melting point closer to lead.
    You may be correct with low melt point of Bismuth to be a major question factor.
    Even with Lead alloys, gas checks were used, as the heat from powders affected base area and resulted in gas bypass cuts and Leading.
    I don't know for sure, but it seemed from various feed backs, that applying two or three coats of Hi-Tek, removed the need for Gas Checks, and no Leading or gas cutting was evident.
    Because of the high insulating property of Hi-Tek, the only way to determine suitability is to try it with Bismuth or its alloys.

  9. #12789
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,429
    I wonder just how much melting of the base actually occurs, causing leading. The amount of time the projectile is subject to the heat of burning powder would be in the milliseconds. Surely not enough time for it to melt? I always thought of a gas check being a good solid base for the gas from the burning powder to push on, creating a tight seal in the bore. I'd like to think the bulk of the heat in the actual projectile is friction between it and the barrel.

    With the layer of hi-tek, it means it needs a lot of heat and pressure to get to the lead under it, i have run coated "soft" lead in my race gun without leading issues, soft as in wheel weight hardness. I do get carbon build up in the compensator (good 'ol AP100), but a soak in hoppes no9 gets rid of that easily. The barrel was only ever cleaned with a plastic brush and a wet patch.

    I know i can get away with 2 coats, but i do 3 just so they look "pretty"

  10. #12790
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazza View Post
    I wonder just how much melting of the base actually occurs, causing leading. The amount of time the projectile is subject to the heat of burning powder would be in the milliseconds. Surely not enough time for it to melt? I always thought of a gas check being a good solid base for the gas from the burning powder to push on, creating a tight seal in the bore. I'd like to think the bulk of the heat in the actual projectile is friction between it and the barrel.

    With the layer of hi-tek, it means it needs a lot of heat and pressure to get to the lead under it, i have run coated "soft" lead in my race gun without leading issues, soft as in wheel weight hardness. I do get carbon build up in the compensator (good 'ol AP100), but a soak in hoppes no9 gets rid of that easily. The barrel was only ever cleaned with a plastic brush and a wet patch.

    I know i can get away with 2 coats, but i do 3 just so they look "pretty"
    I tend to agree with you Tazza, back in the dark ages of wax lube I tried cardboard gas checks which were just discs punched from primer boxes, I used these in my 9mm auto to try and stop leading, it did not work. I found that there was no burning of the discs and in fact one could still read the writing on them, I have to say I no longer believe that the heat generated by powder flame has any effect on cast bullet bases, it is as you stated such a short duration to have any effect. I have never seen or know of anyone who has seen a cast bullet base melted by firing. In the case of Bismuth I would not bet my life or the safety of my firearm on it. Regards Stephen

  11. #12791
    Boolit Master




    HI-TEK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Cohen View Post
    I tend to agree with you Tazza, back in the dark ages of wax lube I tried cardboard gas checks which were just discs punched from primer boxes, I used these in my 9mm auto to try and stop leading, it did not work. I found that there was no burning of the discs and in fact one could still read the writing on them, I have to say I no longer believe that the heat generated by powder flame has any effect on cast bullet bases, it is as you stated such a short duration to have any effect. I have never seen or know of anyone who has seen a cast bullet base melted by firing. In the case of Bismuth I would not bet my life or the safety of my firearm on it. Regards Stephen
    Stephen
    You are correct with heat affecting base of cast.
    My explanation was not adequately clear when I referred to heat and gas cutting.
    If we examine gas cutting, there is a tapering melting starting from edge of base and the melting of alloy travels along bearing surfaces. The widest melt is near the edge of the base, and the travel of gas cutting, tapers off as gasses travel towards to pointed end of cast.
    I was really trying to refer to this phenomena. The gasses travelling/bypassing alloy simply is hot enough to melt that alloy.
    If Cast correctly sized for bore, hot gasses are prevented in majority to do damage like gas cutting. The heat behind well sealing alloy, should not damage alloy due to short resident time of that alloy after firing.
    I agree also with Tazza, that friction heat by Lead and bore causes damage to cast.

  12. #12792
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,482
    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    My colour mix guess is
    First picture is TRUBLU plus TMG Gold
    Second picture is TRUBLU plus Modified TMG Gold.
    Spot on,Sir!

    The mix was done in the bowl,2 ml TruBlu and 3 ml Gold. 5 lbs Bullets were "pre-wetted" with ~2 ml of metho for a slightly longer swirl time. Very low humidity here now. Surface temp was max 185C at the end of bake for max 30 sec,bullet core being 180-182C for the last 2.15 min.

    Smashing felt like 15 BHN after setting overnight.


  13. #12793
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    914
    Joe, I fully understood what you were trying to put forward in your first post, and I certainly did not mean to assert you were wrong in what you were trying to convey as I agree with all you said. I am certain a properly sized and Hi-Tek coated cast bullet will never suffer any gas cutting. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I actually considered the post by Tazza to be a look at things from a different angle, especially his mentioning about a coat of Hi-Tek allowing the use of soft lead alloys in many cases. Regards Stephen

  14. #12794
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,482

  15. #12795
    Boolit Master




    HI-TEK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post

    How pretty are they...
    Purple ???? how did you get that colour?

  16. #12796
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    767
    Joe, I can't figure out a way to get a bhn on hi-tek. I am going to take a break from it and maybe try it again later.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  17. #12797
    Boolit Master




    HI-TEK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    Joe, I can't figure out a way to get a bhn on hi-tek. I am going to take a break from it and maybe try it again later.
    Thanks Slide,
    I had always had suspicions that it was not going to be an easy task. You had a go, and that is what counts.
    I have had another thought when you feel like having another play.
    I am wondering, if you use a piece of sheet Lead, (roofing Lead) scuff it up on one side, to remove surface oxidation, and coat that side with HI-TEK.
    It may be easier to simply brush on some powder onto scuffed side because the Lead sheet is laying flat.
    May be do a couple or 3 coats. Bake all layers well and don't worry about colour.
    Then, when cool, do a hardness test on coated side, then do a hardness test on opposite (uncoated) side.
    I think, (my theory, and don't know if it will work or not), that a flat sheet Lead may be easier to coat evenly and do measurements on, than a cast alloy.

  18. #12798
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    767
    I"ll give a go when ready. Good idea!
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  19. #12799
    Boolit Master
    Ausglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    NSW North Coast, Australia
    Posts
    2,771
    Joe..
    Whay not take a large bullet, say a 230gn 45 and machine a flat on one side.
    coat it, bake it x2 then machine a flat on the other side to remove coating. that way you have a bullet that has been through the same process. 1 side coated and the other uncoated. hardness test both sides.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  20. #12800
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,482
    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    How pretty are they...…
    Purple ???? how did you get that colour?
    That's a Mystery Mix with Candy Apple Red and some other colours which I don't remember...

    Blue is shooting fine,I was clinging an A4 -size plate @ 75 m pretty good with 38 Special wadcutters.

    This target is typical 25 m.


Page 640 of 642 FirstFirst ... 140540590630631632633634635636637638639640641642 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check