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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #10901
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    I like fully coated bullets,grooves filled.

    TMG Gold can do it with two coats,a generous first coat gives no problems with my alloy/bake. I just baked 8 pounds of 158's, gave them 10 ml per coat,twice. My mix is 19g powder/100ml acetone/25ml alcohol. 11 min bake.

    Attachment 230884

    This is one tough coating. Optional colors available by baking longer.

    I hit the smashed bullet with a hammer four times.

  2. #10902
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    They look great. I hope to sling some k15 black on some 125rn tomorrow if i get time. I found a generous coat helps fill the lube groves too. I was running 20g to 120ml acetone. I haven't had issues with needing to slow down rhe solvent evaporating.

  3. #10903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazza View Post
    They look great. I hope to sling some k15 black on some 125rn tomorrow if i get time. I found a generous coat helps fill the lube groves too. I was running 20g to 120ml acetone. I haven't had issues with needing to slow down rhe solvent evaporating.
    We have winter now,below zero C° outside. That means the heated air inside is crazy dry,acetone evaporates quickly. Of course I know a thick first coat is against the original Hi-Tek instructions but this is working goooood. My 19 g came by accident,I measured by volume. My bowl is kinda full with 8 pounds of bullets,I like to slow down a bit.

    TMG Gold is very forgiving in many ways. Shoots great.

  4. #10904
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    Today I fired a few dozen 230gn Lee RN that were cast and coated back in 2013.

    Para 1911 45ACP all fired perfectly with zero fouling. These have been sitting in the box for 5 years. Smashed a few and zero flaking.

    Coated with the old liquid coating...
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  5. #10905
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    I hope the powder has the same (or better) longevity 'cos it's going to take me an awful long time to shoot the stuff I've got coated and stored.

  6. #10906
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    No reason why any type wouldn't be stable, it's essentiallt plastic, so should out last us all

    Glad it's proven to hold up for many years, wven better to shoot the .45, i sure miss mine

  7. #10907
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    Yep. Just that there have been stories of old coated bullets flaking after a few years.
    Just wanted to try the smash on these 5y.o. ones.
    No issues at all.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  8. #10908
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    I'd like to think the ones with flaking issues just weren't applied correctly before storage.

    Sadly i don't have any that are of a significant age to test, they all get slung down range before they have a chance to age

  9. #10909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Happy Birthday dansedgli.
    Ya bloody old fart. Senior soon???
    Have a bloody great day,
    Thanks mate. Not senior yet but starting to feel like it.

  10. #10910
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    Quote Originally Posted by dansedgli View Post
    Thanks mate. Not senior yet but starting to feel like it.
    We all have those days!

  11. #10911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazza View Post
    I'd like to think the ones with flaking issues just weren't applied correctly before storage.
    My thoughts too mate.

    Being a senior's not all it's cracked up to be (but at least I don't have to go to work).

  12. #10912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Yep. Just that there have been stories of old coated bullets flaking after a few years.
    Just wanted to try the smash on these 5y.o. ones.
    No issues at all.

    Ausglock you are using a known alloy composition. It makes all the difference.

    I have heard similar comments previously. Upon examination of alloy under the coating, there was white corrosion type powder under the coating which seemed to have spalled/lifted the coating.
    Despite coating being intact, adhesion is of the film is damaged by alloy composition being unstable with age/weathering (corrosion of some sorts).
    As Petander had found, treating cast of unknown composition with acid pickling, should remove active materials from the cast alloy surfaces. This also will provide a more stable and better surface for the coatings to bond.
    Storing such treated coated alloys, then should be more stable.

  13. #10913
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    G-Day Joe,
    Are you saying HiTek is permeable allowing moisture to reach the lead's surface and cause oxidation?

    Do you know what alloys are most likely to oxidize?

  14. #10914
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Ausglock you are using a known alloy composition. It makes all the difference.

    I have heard similar comments previously. Upon examination of alloy under the coating, there was white corrosion type powder under the coating which seemed to have spalled/lifted the coating.
    Despite coating being intact, adhesion is of the film is damaged by alloy composition being unstable with age/weathering (corrosion of some sorts).
    As Petander had found, treating cast of unknown composition with acid pickling, should remove active materials from the cast alloy surfaces. This also will provide a more stable and better surface for the coatings to bond.
    Storing such treated coated alloys, then should be more stable.
    Actually, these were cast from Range reclaim and wheel weights. This was way before I started buying 2,6,92 alloy. BHN is around the 10 mark.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  15. #10915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grmps View Post
    G-Day Joe,
    Are you saying HiTek is permeable allowing moisture to reach the lead's surface and cause oxidation?

    Do you know what alloys are most likely to oxidize?
    Grmps

    I have to say, that from some indications, the coatings may be permeable to an extent.
    We are talking coated products peeling that are a few years old.
    The Plain coatings, non metallic, may have possibility of having less open spaces.
    We are also dealing with about 1.5 to 2.5 thou of film.
    I suspect, that initial coating has reacted with contaminants, but held adequately for normal use.
    With aging, the spalling may cause fault in integrity of film, opening more areas for moisture to get under film.

    With alloys, most likely ones that may cause problems are the ones containing Zinc, Magnesium, Aluminium, Cadmium.
    There may be others that also may contribute.

  16. #10916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazza View Post
    I'd like to think the ones with flaking issues just weren't applied correctly before storage.

    Sadly i don't have any that are of a significant age to test, they all get slung down range before they have a chance to age
    Hi Tazza,
    I am inclined to an extent, disagree with your comment about coatings not applied correctly before storage.

    These coatings, are very reactive during coating/heating process. Reactive contaminants will interfere with bonding short and long term.
    These coatings are not just a plastic jacket, as some think or assume.
    It is a polymer system, that is designed to very strongly bond to metal Alloys, with heat curing.
    Because of their "reactivity", they are prone to reactions with contaminants of reactive metal contaminants which end up negatively affecting performance.

    You are right, most are used well before any aging and loss of integrity become noticeable.

    This goes with all alloys, recycled or not.

    Generally, if coated cast is used in reasonable timeframe, there should be no problems.
    Storing coated stuff for years, it cannot be predicted what will happen, especially with unknown alloy compositions.

    I cant really understand why any one would coat, then store it for years.
    To me, it seems counter productive, especially if aging may cause problems.

  17. #10917
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    I never really thought about the physical bond, but it makes sense. Paint wants a primer to get into the pores to grab hold and not work on essentially, suction to hold it on. It needs to actually stick.

    I never really thought about the reactivity, but chemistry does show, you heat a reavtive chemical or metal, it speeds the reaction up.

    Most people will use their supplies in a timely fashion, but i know of a guy that had lots if rifle rounds loaded from 20 or more years ago.

    I lnow for pistol shooting, a big day is 500 or more rounds down range, rofle would be a fraction of that. Some people plink every so often, so they are more liable to sit for years before use.

    I only cast pistol projectiles so the turn over is fairly fast, i assume ausglock is the same, focusing on high turn over pistol projectiles.

  18. #10918
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    I have commercially produced 40 cals here that are over 15 years old. Still good.
    Also have rifle ammo I loaded pre 1996. 223 and 308. used to feed Colt AR-15 HBAR and SLR.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  19. #10919
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    I'm thankful that i haven't had any issues, hopefully never will. If the issue is caused from oxygen getting under the coating, causing oxidization, hopefully i'll be ok as i use heat sealed bags to package mine off, keeping out as much oxygen as possible.

    Rifle ammo seems to last forever

  20. #10920
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    Makes sense that the purity of the alloy would slow down or even eliminate any possible oxidation.

    Were more likely to shoot garbage/unknown alloys in handgun plinking and go for the higher quality controlled alloy for matches/hunting/...

    Lead alloy is not molecularly stable for up to 90 days after the boolits have been cast. It can take that long for some alloys to reach their final hardness.

    could there be a difference between coating recently cast boolits of boolits that have been bagged and stored for a longer period of time?
    Last edited by Grmps; 11-27-2018 at 03:05 PM. Reason: clarified

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check