simple Hi-Tek coating

[dansedgli]

Ive never had any luck with frontiers. I shot a pb in service match last week with the tigersharks. 854.

Here is a 25y group.

[Ausglock]

I tried the 123gn HP Tgrshks against my 125gn SWC and 125gn Conical out of the TruBor.
At the same 168P/F, there was no noticeable accuracy difference between them.
I can't justify the extra $30 per 1000 for the Tgrshks over my own coated cast pills.

[ioon44]

I quenched bullets to 22 BHN years ago and found they leaded more than 14 BHN bullets with the same lube, this was long before coated bullets.

I shoot a lot of 10-13 BHN bullets at 850 fps+/- with the Hi-Tek coating sized .002" over bore, for 9mm I like to get up around 14-15 BHN and run a lot of these out of a 9 mm carbine with 16" barrel. I would't shoot them out of a permanently suppressed carbine either.

I don't think soft lube does any thing to seal the bore.

[lazs]

Ausglock.... I have not had much problems with leading of course now that I coat but at one time when I first started casting I tried everything... I still have a lewis lead remover in 44/45 I have never been a big fan of Hoppes but have tried about everything.

So this guy comes over with a pre model 27 in pretty good original condition but that obviously not had much cleaning in it's life. I cleaned the gun normally but There was obviously a lot of lead in the bore. I remembered that I had some 'Frontier' scrub... it is like a chore boy scrubber but some kind of silver alloy... it claims it won't hurt 'the finest blue' and is better than steel wool. What it is good for tho is that I wrap some strands of it around a bore brush and run em through the barrel.. it does a really nice job of removing lead. I would say that for most things it works at least as good and as fast as the lewis lead remover.

lazs

[Ausglock]

I still blame the Tanwog.....

My current 9mm pet load is a 150gn RN loaded with 3.0gn AP-70 (Hodgdon universal to you northerners). Velocity out of the STI Tac 5.0 is 900fps for a 136 Power factor. ES is 10fps. very accurate at 25 yards. Gun is soft and smooth to shoot.

[OldBearHair]

You have heard the term"Up Jumped the Devil", well as I was working up the ladder for 30-30 Marlin 336C with some 170 grain cast and 113 grain cast boolits with Hi-Tek Gold, the groups started opening up badly and I discovered leading in the barrel. I shut it down, cleaned the barrel, set the rifle down and began to retrace my steps. Set everything up to load more rounds with 3031 powder and nine 170 grainers. As I ran the first bullet in the die there was a hard spot (sort of scraping sound) .Thought it was only the die closing the belling around the bullet. Luckily I seated the first bullet a few thousandths deep and picked up the hammer type bullet puller. The bullet came out enough to show that the case had scraped the lead from one side of it and deposited it in the bullet groove. Then I checked the inside chamfer of the case and it wasn't chamfered. Inspected the container with the primed brass ready for loading and they had minimal chamfer. They had been done lightly with the 100 degree tool. So, I used a rotary file in 18v drill and did a longer degree nearly half the diameter of the brass on all the brass. Next loaded one and felt the hard spot where the die closes the belling without the scraping feel. The belling is plenty big to start the bullet, but the die still puts a lot of pressure closing the belling. It is an RCBS die. Use a spacer under the locked die nut .075 thick to keep the crimp from happening and seat to proper OAL. Remove the spacer and tighten die down to give a light crimp in a second step.
How about some feedback? Do I need to polish the die larger in the belling area? Change procedure? Do more of pulling bullets to check? Or just go hunt some pigs with the bullets from another good batch?
The picture shows the chamfer on the three brass lying on the rotary file and the one bullet with the lead and coating scraped off that was pulled. Two good bullets. A couple gas checks. And a Barrick made sizer die and pushrod. No blame at all on the coating as it was still attached to the lead that was scraped off. .

[slide]

Hang tight! Some of the rifle guys will be along and give you a hand.

[Ausglock]

Honestly???

Try a different gun.
and have a look at the excel file on this form that will help you mix an alloy to 2.6.92 hardness.

[slide]

It is not the coating. Too many use it and have no problems. But, everybody always blames the coating. I think going back to fmj would be best for you. I have to admit it ticks me off that you discredit Joe and all his work.

[glockfan]

petander: something might be wrong with how you resize in relation to your bore. did you slugged your barrel to see what would be the best resizing numbers?

leading goes with a less than maximal obturation of the barrel via an incorrect boolit size. i'm shooting cast
WW's and i don't get that much leading in my nine, while i shoot .357's because i got some leading with .356.

as for the hi tek desintegrating, again there's something wrong. either deposits on your casts that prevent the coating from fully bonding with the lead, OR an incorrect bake time or the inside oven temp swinging up-down all the time.

[HI-TEK]

petander:

as for the hi tek desintegrating, again there's something wrong. either deposits on your casts that prevent the coating from fully bonding with the lead, OR an incorrect bake time or the inside oven temp swinging up-down all the time.

Glockfan,
It is not clear, if all the coatings that were tested/used in fact produced same fail results. If all the coatings failed, then things are very obvious.

I have suspicions that there could be a reaction with metal, or there is some sort of cross contamination or both.
I posted independently over baking and smash results after over baking, and using several coatings.
It is not over baking causing problems.
Failed solvent test after bake at extended time, indicates no cure.
What ever is causing this lack of bonding and no cure is a real mystery.
I have never seen this previously.
I don't know how many times I have stated, that various metals and or cross contaminations will and can react with the coating during bake which prevents bonding.
There are many hundreds of thousands satisfied users around the world. Sometimes, a few may get bad results, and all attempts are made to help and identify the problem.
For whatever reason, the real reasons for failure seem never revealed.

[Petander]

It is not the coating. Too many use it and have no problems. But, everybody always blames the coating. I think going back to fmj would be best for you. I have to admit it ticks me off that you discredit Joe and all his work.

Sorry for that,I thought I made clear it's my alloy that's the problem.Im not blaming the coating or anyone for anything.

I thought for a while that I made good bakings and went on testing,it's me messing up here. I shoot cast, FMJ:s and arrows too, no need to go back. But I get your point and removed my report.

Just cleaning the gun now with Forrest foam,here it is after 100 Magtech FMJ factory rounds today. I have baked the coating underneath pretty hard it seems. The barrel looked clean after Foul Out overnight,FMJ:s brought the black crud up and visible again.

Attachment 219514

[Ausglock]

Can you get one of your shooting mates to try your rounds in their gun?
Anything other than a Tanwog.
Hell...My Glock 17 eats hitek coated all day in the factory barrel. no issues.

[glockfan]

Joe. Trevor.

speaking about cross contamination preventing the correct bonding effect.....in petander case, i'm pretty much convinced this has to be related to the smelting process . how the lead can be contaminated this bad that hi tek doesn't '''penetrate''' the lead surface at all?....!. it has to be a foreign element who made its way ''''into''' the lead during the smelting part, then released in the casting pot during the casting process , hence the why hi tek won't bond with the lead ?......IIRC he even washed his boolits with acetone to ''erase ''' any possible residual matter ! and it did not worked either!!

[Ausglock]

When smelting or casting, I only use Bees Wax to flux my alloy.

[ioon44]

About 2 years ago a friend of mine bought some .32 cal wad 105 gr cutters un sized from a well known commercial caster here in the states and wanted me to do the Hi-Tek coating.

When I tried to coat the wad cutters the coating would not stick to the bullets, I never did figure out if it was the alloy or contamination after they had been cast, I don't want to play that game again.

[Petander]

Can you get one of your shooting mates to try your rounds in their gun?
Anything other than a Tanwog.
Hell...My Glock 17 eats hitek coated all day in the factory barrel. no issues.

I don't have the courage to feed these in anyone else's gun right now. Not to mention my B&T carbine what this is all about,my idea was to see if I can coat and shoot my existing pile of boolits with it. I sound lika a parrot.

This *** Tanfoog is shooting this same boolit and load(s) plain,not coated,just fine. I have used this alloy with who knows how many guns since 2001 or so when I smelted a few tons. In this board archives you eg. find me developing sub 45-70 and 308 ammo in 2005 , here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch...hp/t-2060.html


I don't have general cast or reload problems. I adjust hardness by varying the amount of linotype.

I use factory fmj ammo with this Tanfock most of the time for practical reasons (pun) , this is not the gun I'm planning the coated ammo for. Just shot a box of these same 166, plain,lubed,not coated @ 1030 fps,got the black crud out first.

Attachment 219583

Attachment 219584

[Petander]

Joe. Trevor.

speaking about cross contamination preventing the correct bonding effect.....in petander case, i'm pretty much convinced this has to be related to the smelting process . how the lead can be contaminated this bad that hi tek doesn't '''penetrate''' the lead surface at all?....!. it has to be a foreign element who made its way ''''into''' the lead during the smelting part, then released in the casting pot during the casting process , hence the why hi tek won't bond with the lead ?......IIRC he even washed his boolits with acetone to ''erase ''' any possible residual matter ! and it did not worked either!!

Yep,something like this it is. Zinc is possible, at that time zinc ww started to become common. I remember some making it to the pot but being quick you can take it out before it melts.

This is not the end of the world,I may very well try cleaning later on.
9 mm is not my highest priority in this hobby,long range is more important. Well,I like it all,shotgun trap is great fun we have a good little bunch of shooters here... Moving moose target with rifles is even better... Three gun is cool...


I used beeswax and sawdust. Lots of them. First I made straight ww,then mixed lino 10% or 30% and made ingots. Fluxing in every turn.

Here you see again how deceiving sideways smash looks. Smashed upright like the green one shows how it flakes. It has to be my alloy, I have done so many different bakes now that I know at least something about what is happening and what is not.

Attachment 219593

[Tazza]

I was pretty sure Joe said that Hi-Tek would bond to pretty much any metal, doesn't need to be just lead, so any zinc contamination shouldn't be an issue. As long as the metal is clean of oils it should stick.

With the heat of the molten lead, any oils for fluxing should be burnt off, the only possible point of contamination is sprue plate lube.

Washing with acetone or MEK before coating may be a good idea.

[Ausglock]

Zinc in with lead gives a white powder type corrosion over time. The coating will not stick.