simple Hi-Tek coating

[marky123]

Oh yes

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

Anybody in CA have problems with the VOC compliant Acetone. I'm having issues and I think it may be my solvent.

[HI-TEK]

Anybody in CA have problems with the VOC compliant Acetone. I'm having issues and I think it may be my solvent.

All solvents to varying degree are VOC, (Volatile Organic Compounds), that includes Acetone, Alcohol, Petrol, Turpentine etc etc

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

Yes. The issue with California is they have limits set on what can be sold. For example, you can't buy denatured alcohol anymore among other things. The paint thinner is worthless.

That being said I just realized I was looking at the wrong MSDS, my acetone should be good to go.

The reason I questioned my solvent was because I've been have failures with my coating. I can not get a batch that passes the smash test. I've done about a dozen batches and all of them pass the wipe test but flake when smashed. I'm applying a light coat, 1ml per pound, and letting them dry for 24hrs before baking. Trying to track down the issue.

I am going to try increasing my bake temp.

[HI-TEK]

Yes. The issue with California is they have limits set on what can be sold. For example, you can't buy denatured alcohol anymore among other things. The paint thinner is worthless.

That being said I just realized I was looking at the wrong MSDS, my acetone should be good to go.

The reason I questioned my solvent was because I've been have failures with my coating. I can not get a batch that passes the smash test. I've done about a dozen batches and all of them pass the wipe test but flake when smashed. I'm applying a light coat, 1ml per pound, and letting them dry for 24hrs before baking. Trying to track down the issue.

Make sure that you are using Pure Acetone, not solvents containing Acetone.
My suggestion is, that despite drying over night, you may need to warm air dry coated cast to about 50C for half an hour or so. I suspect that you are using too much coating on first coat, Drying captures moisture which wont totally dry off. It needs to be warm air dried.
Solvent wipe test is confirming that coating is cured but not bonded.
When you think your coated cast is dry, just bake a couple, and continue warm air drying of the bulk. When after test baking it passes smash test, only then bake the bulk.

Just another question, what alloy are you using?

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

Okay I will try a warm air dry after coating. Where I live it is cool and humid, so what you're saying makes sense. I do dry them over a box fan but i could see how moisture would not wick out. I'm using 5mls for 200 45's. My alloy is 93-4-3. I'm buying lead with 2.5-3% antimony and adding tin.

Would 65C be okay for air dry, that's as low as my oven goes?

[HI-TEK]

Okay I will try a warm air dry after coating. Where I live it is cool and humid, so what you're saying makes sense. I do dry them over a box fan but i could see how moisture would not wick out. I'm using 5mls for 200 45's. My alloy is 93-4-3. I'm buying lead with 2.5-3% antimony and adding tin.

Would 65C be okay for air dry, that's as low as my oven goes?

Probably it would be better if you sat your drying tray on top of your oven with separators to allow warmed air to rise through your drying coated casts.
Feeling them will give you a good idea if they are warm enough, as at about 50C they are hold able but will be warm.
Have you an IR thermometer? It will hep greatly as it will give you direct temperature readings. Simples test is test baking a couple at a time. (Continue warm air drying the bulk) If the couple that are test baked pass all tests, the rest should be ready to be baked.

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

With the smash test, what exactly is a pass. Absolutely no flaking? Very small loss of coating with no lead showing?

[ryanmattes]

Others may be able to answer better, but here are my ideas of pass and fail.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

With the smash test, what exactly is a pass. Absolutely no flaking? Very small loss of coating with no lead showing?

Please have a look at video on smash test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYOG5xKTr0

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

I'm definitely failing the smash test. Did another batch today, first coat looks good. Going to let second coat dry overnight after sitting on top my oven. Really hoping I can get this dialed in. I'd rather be loading and shooting than struggling with this.

[HI-TEK]

I'm definitely failing the smash test. Did another batch today, first coat looks good. Going to let second coat dry overnight after sitting on top my oven. Really hoping I can get this dialed in. I'd rather be loading and shooting than struggling with this.

My two cents worth.
If after baking, if first coat fails smash test, do not coat a second time. It is a total waste, and effort and waste of materials.
Applying a second coat, will not fix badly adhering first coat.
It is simply a re-melt. Sorry but first coat must pass smash test. Subsequent coats will pass if first coat passes smash test.

[HI-TEK]

What I find curious is, that many thousands of hobbyists are coating very successfully and are not struggling.
I also wonder how large scale casters who use these coatings, manage to produce many tens of thousands per day, and don't have smash problems?

[Ausglock]

What I find curious is, that many thousands of hobbyists are coating very successfully and are not struggling.
I also wonder how large scale casters who use these coatings, manage to produce many tens of thousands per day, and don't have smash problems?

It's easy, really. We layout 250 coated bullets per tray under a fan for 30 mins.
Transfer to containers.
Spread bullets from containers onto baking trays.
place trays on top of oven while pervious tray is baking.
insert warmed tray into oven and repeat.
We run 4 ovens in this way, baking 1000 every 12 mins.
We wipe and smash 1 every 1000.

[Stephen Cohen]

I think a lot of the problem comes from what we think is good alloy, just recently I coated some cast for a friend who sweetened his mix with what he thought was Lino Type which turned out to be largely Zinc based or so my acid test showed, the project was a total fail. I also think a lot don't realise that just handling the cast can, and does transfer oil from your skin to cast, or that towel you drop your hot cast onto was the one you wiped your greasy hands on last week. I must say the fails shown by the OP looked to have too much first coating to me and looked very much like the fails I spoke of. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

It's easy, really. We layout 250 coated bullets per tray under a fan for 30 mins.
Transfer to containers.
Spread bullets from containers onto baking trays.
place trays on top of oven while pervious tray is baking.
insert warmed tray into oven and repeat.
We run 4 ovens in this way, baking 1000 every 12 mins.
We wipe and smash 1 every 1000.

Ausglock
It makes sense, and is logical progression.
I am puzzled by people who seem to be struggling, and making small amounts, and ending up with failures.

Stephen, thanks for your input. Your observations are very close to the mark, but also such flaking may also be contributed not only with alloy contamination but insufficient drying. If you examine flaking first coat, if you can see white powder residue on the alloy, this is caused by contaminations in alloy
Drying failures alone, should reveal shiny Lead with no powdery film on surface. If you have a combination of insufficient drying and alloy contamination, then it is easily fixed.
This blog site has repeatedly advised people to check their alloys for contaminations and use of "Mystery alloys". The contaminations in such alloys can cause such adhesion failures.
Many have posted previously with failures, who were not aware that their "alloy" was in fact the cause of their problems.
Once they followed advice given, to acid treat the cast after casting to remove surface contaminations, and dry first coat well, all problems disappeared.
I don't think it is rocket science to check out basic stuff.

[marky123]

I'm off shooting...

[HI-TEK]

I'm off shooting...

They look great. Looking forward to your findings after shooting them

[Stephen Cohen]

The up side to it all is that the vast majority who have failures, do in fact take note of advice and have no further problems. Given all the different alloys and mystery metals used by many of us it is only natural a problems will come up pretty often with those new to this coating, the vast majority of us, myself included are tight ---- and are willing to go the extra mile to get a questionable alloy to work, for instance acid wash. I am sure when Joe created this coating he did not envisage the amount of different and often unsuitable alloys that we would use, the fact that most can and do get used with a large degree of success says much for this product. Contamination in any form is not your friend. Regards Stephen

[marky123]

Well...............
Clean bore.I would say 'nice clean bore',but its a Norinco.

First five shots of the last twice coated batch,fired off a rest at 10m

Muzzle shots.Bit of lead hiding there.

Next group,shots 5-10

Muzzle shot.A few streaks,but not a lead mine.

Shots 10-15.Pulled a couple here.

Muzzle.

Then the last shots.15-21,to pull the group back in.

Muzzle action.


Looking down the bore,there is a definite smear of leading down one of the grooves which I will
remove but I'll call this exercise a win.
Tomorrow,3 coats and repeat!