simple Hi-Tek coating

[kryogen]

The testing of the .358 triple coated water dropped after last bake at 220 projectiles was a success IMO.

Minimal leading after 50 rounds. There was SOME minor leading in the corners of the lands, but VERY minor. Just 2 little streaks. The rest of the barrel was clean.

(.357 2 thin coats was a complete and absolute lead beast).

I just ordered the pat marlins 35PB check maker and will just GC everything with thin aluminum.... that should take care of the rest of the leading.
I don't really have time to clean lead, and would rather clean my gun not so often, so I prefer to just add PB GCs when sizing, I have to size anyway so it's not really longer, and it will work I guess.

Will report once I have tested with GCs, but so far, really, it's quite decent.

I have a nice collection of nice colors to try.... so now that I have a load that works, I'll be good to cast a few thousands.

[Shotgundrums]

Well, great!!

[kryogen]

Plus, those nice 105 SWC take little lead, and punch nice and clean round holes in the paper.

[Gremlin460]

Yeah. it's not bad. I think you will like it. That is if Joe mixed it correctly......

Well there is that aspect to consider...

[HI-TEK]

Well there is that aspect to consider...

What is not included in the "consider" aspect is, the constant need to change colour, increase this, add that, and after about 400 or so samples developed, in 6-12 months, it is getting quite overwhelming.
I have now at least 8 versions of Blue/Green, 8 versions of Zombie, 8 versions of Kryptonite, and, what makes it worse, is that we lose track of which one was preferred over another, and why.

Then, it has to be also considered, the ones who want Polka Dot, Candy striped, Red & White striped, Hot Pink, Cold Pink, Purple, Purple with gold stripes, Fluoro, Phosphorescent, glow in the dark, match my lipstick colour, and scarf colour, etc etc etc.

It is bewildering to say the least.
I only wish, that all demands could be met, but it simply does not work that way.

[Ausglock]

Whinge whinge...go take a few cold tablets and wash them down with your favorite poison.

[kweidner]

Joe I don't care what color you make. Just make sure you keep making it! We have too many people that love this product!

[Gremlin460]

What is not included in the "consider" aspect is, the constant need to change colour, increase this, add that, and after about 400 or so samples developed, in 6-12 months, it is getting quite overwhelming.
I have now at least 8 versions of Blue/Green, 8 versions of Zombie, 8 versions of Kryptonite, and, what makes it worse, is that we lose track of which one was preferred over another, and why.

Then, it has to be also considered, the ones who want Polka Dot, Candy striped, Red & White striped, Hot Pink, Cold Pink, Purple, Purple with gold stripes, Fluoro, Phosphorescent, glow in the dark, match my lipstick colour, and scarf colour, etc etc etc.

It is bewildering to say the least.
I only wish, that all demands could be met, but it simply does not work that way.

IMHO, you have a Great Bronze, Gold, Yellow that I have used personally. Stick to basic red/blue/yellow metalics and everyone else can either mix their own, of pay extra to have it mixed for them. Now for the Codral and Kentucky Idea Trev has.. sounds good.

[HI-TEK]

Joe I don't care what color you make. Just make sure you keep making it! We have too many people that love this product!

Kweidner & Gremlin
Thanks for vote of support.

I must say, my comments were not meant to end up as a whinge.
Unfortunately, it seems, that it may have appeared like it.

What hurt, is that I just had to destroy about 200-250 litres in total of all sorts of mixes, some that worked and others that did not.
Some went back many years, and information on them, was very unreliable at best.

I recall, years ago, that I made up the harder resin system, supplied it to a commercial caster (customer) and we arranged testing of coated projectiles in various guns, and captured them in Water tank made for the job, also for examination.
Out of about a dozen recipes, only one seemed to work, so I abandoned further work along the lines to develop a much more hard & durable coating.

Years later it was discovered, that the initial coating/baking process was rushed, not dried enough, and failures were directly due to poor bonding, and not from the coatings I made up..

It turned out, the single one that seemed to work, was in fact prepared hours earlier to all the rest, and was totally dried before being baked.
During testing, I was not aware of those facts.

I went back, and had a look at the mixtures I started to experiments/investigations, and, realised what went wrong. All resin systems then were reproduced, and they all passed with flying colours.

You can imagine my frustration when I realised why things failed with those tests, and those failures were based on circumstances I had no control or knowledge over.

I know Ausglock is a "tough" critic, but tests results, good or bad, can be relied upon, and will be quoted/reported as found.

But, no liquid drinking lubricant in sight. He is very tight....

[Avenger442]

The 1035 Gold has been extensively tested in four of my guns and I'm happy!

[kryogen]

I am going to try gunmetal and gold next

[Ausglock]

I am going to try gunmetal and gold next

tested this yesterday. It went a very very dark green with the gold fleck. Looks OK and wipes and smashes fine.

Going to try Gunmetal and Red254 to see if I can get purple.

[kryogen]

I have experienced something tonight.

I cast some staight coww 2 days ago, air cooled. baked 3 coats, baked the last coat 220C for 12 min, then water dropped.

Some were sized immediately and loaded to shoot the next day. They were "relatively" easy to size. I didnt use any sizing lube. I noticed some scraping, but no bare metal. Load produced minimal leading, but still some leading (due to the scraping and thin coating because of the no lube sizing?)

Tonight, I tried for fun to size a batch that I didnt size yet. From approx 360 to 358. Bullets hardened for 2 days, so they were pretty much hardened. Tried no lube. Jammed mid way. Had to really really push on the handle to get it through, and I scraped the coating to the lead.

So, I sprayed some hornady one shot on the bullets, dried those with a heat gun, and proceeded to size. They were much easier, but still not easy. There were "some" scrape marks on the coating, but nothing went through, but I suspect that the coating is thinner in those spots.

So, what would be the best thing to do? Maybe cast, bake once, size while still soft with just one coat on, (and apply PB GC if needed), and then coat another time and dump into water for hardness? That way the 2nd coat would not be altered with the sizing?

I will try that load tomorrow if I can, but I would not be surprised to get some leading, because I am pretty sure that sizing those hard bullets with a so so lube thinned the coating somehow.

How do you guys do it? (with or without PB GC?)

(Oh, and I found my issue with oneshot. I wasnt using enough, and I wasnt drying it completely before sizing). What I did this time is apply enough to "wet" the brass all around (not soak...), then shake while drying with a heat gun. Takes 30 seconds, and you get the most slippery brass to size ever. Like butter. Now it really works really well.

[Shotgundrums]

Get the spray with ptfe. It works great. Plus nothing the potentially harm coating or adhesion of subsequent coats.

[kryogen]

Get the spray with ptfe. It works great. Plus nothing the potentially harm coating or adhesion of subsequent coats.

How would PTFE not alter adhesion with other coats, etc?

What brand is it? can I get it in canada?

[HI-TEK]

Kryogen,
Sizing should not remove any coating.
What sizing gear do you have? Please advise total details of sizing equipment.
If your sizing , has sharp cutting edges at any area, or projectile is not lined up correctly, this will shave alloy with coating.
This shaving being removed by sizing, then would wrongly indicate that you did not get bonding, but, if you examine shavings, one side is Silver and other side has coating.

If finished coating passes all smash tests, it should size OK and not be removed.

If you are using a Wax Lube type Sizer, and have possibly two or more projectiles contained in sizing area, I am not surprised at the difficulty you have with pushing alloy through it.

You should not require One Shot type lubes at all.

With hard alloys, using Aqualube 5000, diluted, should significantly reduce sizing loads.

Aqualube 5000 is a dry-film, non contaminating, non transferring lube, that can be applied with water dilutions or Denatured Alcohol dilutions of the concentrate, to coated and baked projectiles that are ready for sizing..

If you use various concoctions, of unknown composition as lubricants, my concern is that due to transfer contact, you may get contamination of surfaces that may eventually interfere with coating bonding.

I am getting a distinct impression that you are over thinking all this coating & sizing area.
It is simply, cast, coat, dry well, and bake adequately.
Water cool/quench if required, after last coat. Dry and size after adequate storage.
Record hardness of alloy.

It would be useful if you can advise details of sizing equipment, and as asked previously, photos of finished coated alloys, before and after sizing.

[Ausglock]

Have a look inside your sizer die. It should be mirror smooth. If it is scratching the coating, there must be imbedded rubbish in it.
Spin a rod with fine steelwool to clean it out.

Sizing without lube is normal and doesn't cause damage to the coating.

.360 down to .358 is doable without lube.

[Dystaxia]

Is the 1035 Gold available in powder form?

[HI-TEK]

How would PTFE not alter adhesion with other coats, etc?

What brand is it? can I get it in Canada?

Kryogen & Shotgundrums

The Aqualube 5000, is a water based low molecular weight Fluoro-Polymer concentrate.
It has no other "oily" carriers incorporated.
The Polymers used have particle size of about 0.01 to 0.05 micron range.
This material has been tested to determine that it does not affect subsequent applications/bonding of coatings, if specifically used as a lube to size after first coat.
It is available from Bayou in small packs and can be posted.

PTFE sprays per say, have suspended PTFE powders included in some sort of lubricating carrier like oils or Silicones.
The PTFE used in these products may have particles ranging from 1-60 micron sizes, but are generally in about 20-30 micron range.
The PTFE that is used in these type of products can be 100 times larger in size, compared to materials used in Aqualube 5000.
The "carriers" used in combination with the PTFE, lube sprays, aside from migration contamination, may also cause re-coating failures.

To assist with non transferring lubrication, you need a dry film non transferring non migrating non cross contaminating lubricant.

[HI-TEK]

Is the 1035 Gold available in powder form?

Yes, it is ex stock with Bayou.