simple Hi-Tek coating

[Mike Malat]

Just one more question.
How did you go with sizing the final coated projectiles?
Did it affect the coating at all, and, any observations?

Pre coating size of the .40 cal's were ~.402-.4023 (NOE Mould) - after 3 coats of Hi-Tek they were ~.405. Ran them through a lee push through that I had polished/opened up to .402. No adverse impact to the coating, very little resistance going through the die. Where the coating and die touched there was a 'polished/glossy' look to the coating similar to what I've seen for any sized boolit.

@asuglock Going forward, I'll be using a thinner solution. Some more will be going into the oven later today after I pick up a thermometer.

@Gremlin. I've been following your thread after stumbling upon it a few weeks ago. A brilliant piece of work and it's another item that's been tugging at my wallet but I need to resist the urge for now.

[Ausglock]

Dec 3 2013 quote
5-1-7 mix. 250 9 mm 125 gr bullets get 7 mls of coating. Easy. No rocket science needed.

I just got my Hi-Tek powder and was thinking that 20 grams to 50 ml was too concentrated. I like to use more of a dilute solution to get the Hi-Tek to cover better.

How much of the 20 grams to 100 ml are you using on 250 9mm (125 grain ?) boolits ?

At 20gms:100mls I still use the same amount of mixed coating. 7mls.

[farmerjim]

Thanks Ausglock
The 5-1-7 and 7ml works great for me so with your knowledge and experience with the powder I am sure I will get great results with it too.

[atygrit]

OK, I'm STILL having problems with this coating! I purchased the new powder (way easier to mix ), specifically Black 1035 from Gateway Bullets, which I received it in one day, which is great!

I have a PID on my oven and I'm assuming the temperature is accurate, but if it isn't at least it should be repeatable. The problem I'm having is, I'm getting the coating to wipe off during the wipe test.

I created a smaller batch for my first use of the new powder, I mixed 1 tsp to 25 ml of acetone and used 1 ml per pound of bullets. As I'm typing this, I think my ratios are off! If the mix doesn't contain enough acetone, would that make it fail the wipe test?

If I wanted to make the mix in smaller batches, would the correct ratio be .5 TSP to 25 ml of acetone?

[HI-TEK]

OK, I'm STILL having problems with this coating! I purchased the new powder (way easier to mix ), specifically Black 1035 from Gateway Bullets, which I received it in one day, which is great!

I have a PID on my oven and I'm assuming the temperature is accurate, but if it isn't at least it should be repeatable. The problem I'm having is, I'm getting the coating to wipe off during the wipe test.

I created a smaller batch for my first use of the new powder, I mixed 1 tsp to 25 ml of acetone and used 1 ml per pound of bullets. As I'm typing this, I think my ratios are off! If the mix doesn't contain enough acetone, would that make it fail the wipe test?

If I wanted to make the mix in smaller batches, would the correct ratio be .5 TSP to 25 ml of acetone?

There are 4 areas below, I would appreciate your responses.

The ratio is 20 grams powder (1 Tablespoon) to 100 mls Pure Acetone. Easy to measure.

1. When making up your coating mix, how long did you mix before using?
2 After coating, how long did you allow to dry? What was ambient conditions during drying?
3.How many did you place into the pre-heated oven set at 200C? How long did you bake?
4.Did you allow baked projectiles to cool before solvent test

As advised many times previously by various users, dont try to make up very small quantities.
It is counter productive.
The whole idea is, make up your mixture, say a minimum of 50 mls, then you cast many first, and then , and try to use coating mixture up, and leave you non coated cast.
Even if you dont use up all the coating mixture, it should be stable in a well sealed container and kept out of sunlight and cool.

[Rompin Ruger]

I shared some pics of my first attempt at cooking up some gold large caliber (.45 colt 270 gr boolits) the other week. I finally got out to shoot them.

I had DougGuy here hone out my cylinders on my 45 colt Ruger NMBH's (blue and a SS longer (7.5") bbl hunter.

here are my targets at 25 yards for the SS 7.5" with a sandbag and low power aiming device for my old eyes!

I had a relatively clean barrel. Slight leading nearer the muzzle and that gun, leaded like a printing press in days bygone before Doug's work, so Doug's reaming did it some good, and the coating did it's job!

Boolit is the RCBS 45-270-SAA modified keith, pushed by 19, 19.5, 20.0 & 20.5 for the below targets. That NMBH thumps my middle finger big knuckle and after I'd shot two test runs of 5, it was SORE and my groups really opened up on the far top right target...

I quit and shot .38 and .357's for a while... some 45acp out of the convertable 45's other cylinder and then shot the hottest of the group, the 20.5 and they were right back on line... so 20.0 was shooter error from being pounded!

I loaded up another 68 of them to do some off-hand hunting practice for an upcoming hog hunt.



My attempts--



2nd bake at top and 1st bake/coat on lower tray!

I think I'm going to love this stuff!

[atygrit]

There are 4 areas below, I would appreciate your responses.

The ratio is 20 grams powder (1 Tablespoon) to 100 mls Pure Acetone. Easy to measure.

1. When making up your coating mix, how long did you mix before using?
2 After coating, how long did you allow to dry? What was ambient conditions during drying?
3.How many did you place into the pre-heated oven set at 200C? How long did you bake?
4.Did you allow baked projectiles to cool before solvent test

As advised many times previously by various users, dont try to make up very small quantities.
It is counter productive.
The whole idea is, make up your mixture, say a minimum of 50 mls, then you cast many first, and then , and try to use coating mixture up, and leave you non coated cast.
Even if you dont use up all the coating mixture, it should be stable in a well sealed container and kept out of sunlight and cool.

1. 10 minutes or so.
2. Approximately 15 minutes with a fan. The temperature was great, probably 90 degrees Fahrenheit and low humidity.
3. I ran the 1st batch at 395 Fahrenheit for 10 minutes and the 2nd and 3rd I cooked hotter and longer to see if it would at least pass the wipe test. I figured if I can get it to pass the wipe test, that will be a significant accomplishment and I'd worry about the smash test later.
4. Yes, they were completely cool to the touch before the wipe test.

After my post I thought I might have the ratio off so I made another small batch. I don't really like around or about when doing this kind of stuff, so I converted 20 grams to grains, because I have a reloading scale that measures in grains. 5 grams equals 77.16 grains. I combined 77.16 grains (5 grams) with 25 ml of acetone. I didn't realize it is an issue to make smaller batches, why would it matter if the ratios are correct?

In Gateway Bullets instructions it states: " Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone." But you state 20 grams is 1 Tablespoon. What is correct? Is it OK to convert grams to grains and mix it precisely based on weight?

Also, the new batch I cooked for 10 minutes at 400 Fahrenheit didn't pass the wipe test either.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Michael J. Spangler]

michael splanger, the meters i bought have been changed slightly. The new version is extech mn35, $19.99. These are located in the walmart auto section. The come with the k style thermocouple.
A have purchased spare thermocouple off e-bay that are identical to the ones that come with the meter for less than $2 each.

Avenger442, i did test the boolits before and after coating. After heat treating they were 35bhn, after coating they were 32 to 34 bhn.
Richard lee's modern reloading manual contains a chart of boolit hardness versus strength psi and pressure max psi. This manual contains some good info in it and is not very expensive.

For a 21 bhn boolit the the max (chamber) psi is about 26,800 psi with the strength being about 31,016 psi. [max (chamber) psi must be less than strength psi. ]

for a 33bhn boolit the max (chamber) psi is 42,256 psi with the strength being 46,951 psi.

I have found this to be a fairly close method of checking to ensure your alloy is up to the psi you are going to subject it to. For this to work the gun has to be capable of shooting accurately and not have issues like i have found with some off center chambers or no leade in the barrel.

I think i have "cheated" this chart and gone beyond the pressure listed with the coating in guns that shoot very well.

My experimenting has come to a halt for now as i think i have a bad disk in my lower back if i read the mri correctly. Been down about 2 weeks and finally went to the va emergency room tuesday then had an mri friday. I'm on stout pain killers so do not want to be playing with gunpowder!

thanks man!!

[redrockant]

20 Grams =0.706 oz, 0.706oz = 308.87gr

[Ausglock]

OK, I'm STILL having problems with this coating! I purchased the new powder (way easier to mix ), specifically Black 1035 from Gateway Bullets, which I received it in one day, which is great!

I have a PID on my oven and I'm assuming the temperature is accurate, but if it isn't at least it should be repeatable. The problem I'm having is, I'm getting the coating to wipe off during the wipe test.

I created a smaller batch for my first use of the new powder, I mixed 1 tsp to 25 ml of acetone and used 1 ml per pound of bullets. As I'm typing this, I think my ratios are off! If the mix doesn't contain enough acetone, would that make it fail the wipe test?

If I wanted to make the mix in smaller batches, would the correct ratio be .5 TSP to 25 ml of acetone?

Are you using "real" Acetone??? Not cheap nail polish remover or other rubbish.

Get yourself an Ebay digi scale that weighs in grams and measure the 20 gms.

The mixed coating will last for over a month when mixed. don't be scared of it "going off" I have mixed coating on my bench that has been sitting for over 2 months. coated with it the other day and it is still perfect.

[HI-TEK]

Are you using "real" Acetone??? Not cheap nail polish remover or other rubbish.

Get yourself an Ebay digi scale that weighs in grams and measure the 20 gms.

The mixed coating will last for over a month when mixed. don't be scared of it "going off" I have mixed coating on my bench that has been sitting for over 2 months. coated with it the other day and it is still perfect.

All users,
What seems to be missed is, that the 20 gms/100 mls Acetone is a guide for starting.
The idea is, that the the quantities, are a guide to what has been used OK as a mixture.
Adding, plus or minus a couple of grams, will not stop the product working and should not cause any one any alarm..
Some like it with a little more some like it with a little less.
It really should not matter, as it only affects the "cosmetic" appearances.
As advised many times, dont apply thick coatings, it is not required.

If a more dilute version is applied, you only are using more Acetone to spread same amount of coating over a lot more surfaces.

[Stephen Cohen]

I did some load development for the 458 WM today, wining load was 535gr cast three coats red copper, 44gr of 2207 or as you guys in States call it H4198 and sparked by CCI mag primer. This load delivered 4 shots in under an inch, the Range Officer who spotted for me was more excited than I was. Did not have chronograph I was just looking for a nice accurate load, would imagine velocity close to 1700 fps. I fired 35 shots all told and no leading at all. One of the local gun shop employees was telling me that this coating is only good for pistol loads, how wrong he was.

[btroj]

In Gateway Bullets instructions it states: " Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone." But you state 20 grams is 1 Tablespoon. What is correct? Is it OK to convert grams to grains and mix it precisely based on weight?

Be sure not to confuse a teaspoon with a tablespoon. Three teaspoons is one tablespoon. So 2 to 3 teaspoons would be approximately one tablespoon.

I would keep cooking a bit longer until you find the temp and time that works. Also remember that when you add a large mass of cold bullets to the oven the temp drops significantly and much energy goes into warming them to oven temp. I use a wire rack covered in 1/4 inch hardware cloth in a convection oven. I don't put any bullets on the last 1.5 inches to either side. I do this to allow better air flow throughout the oven so heating occurs more rapidly and more evenly.

I also have two rack, one is cooking while the other sits on top of the oven preheating with bullets.

You also might let them dry longer. Even though mine have felt dry at times the way they baked said otherwise. If their is even a hint of acetone under a dried outer shell it messes with the coating and the oven spends a bunch of time drying bullets, not heating them. I like to make sure they are totally dry, I tend to let em sit overnight or at least for a few hours. Even an hour sitting in the sun would help.

Getting complete curing ring isn't that tough, it just means you need to find what works in your oven. Smaller batches, longer time, hotter temp, something has to work. Keep playing with it.

[HI-TEK]

In Gateway Bullets instructions it states: " Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone." But you state 20 grams is 1 Tablespoon. What is correct? Is it OK to convert grams to grains and mix it precisely based on weight?

My reply; Thank you for your comments.
Work done here, a table spoon was used, and powder weighed approximately 20 grams mixed with 100 mls Acetone.
You are correct with your observations on Gateways instructions.
They state that it should be 20 grams to 100 mls of Acetone.
I am thinking, that instructions from Gateway is correct with weight/volume ratio, but may have possibly wanted to put teaspoon instead of tablespoon.
I think Gateway may clarify such detail, if asked.
I dont think that such instruction were deliberate, and may be just a mistake.

This weight/volume matter is not a life and death situation.
As advised previously, some folk like to use more powder per volume of Acetone, and others want to use less powder per volume of Acetone.
What ever user decides that works for them then it is all OK.
I really don't see a problem, as using more or less, done/handled correctly thereafter, should work OK.
The coating should not fail, because someone used 2 or 3 grams more or less, in same volume of solvent.


Q "Be sure not to confuse a teaspoon with a tablespoon. Three teaspoons is one tablespoon. So 2 to 3 teaspoons would be approximately one tablespoon."

My Reply;
I agree, and the weights should be checked with whatever spoon is used, so user knows how much plus or minus is used each time.

I would keep cooking a bit longer until you find the temp and time that works. Also remember that when you add a large mass of cold bullets to the oven the temp drops significantly and much energy goes into warming them to oven temp. I use a wire rack covered in 1/4 inch hardware cloth in a convection oven. I don't put any bullets on the last 1.5 inches to either side. I do this to allow better air flow throughout the oven so heating occurs more rapidly and more evenly.

I also have two rack, one is cooking while the other sits on top of the oven preheating with bullets.

You also might let them dry longer. Even though mine have felt dry at times the way they baked said otherwise. If their is even a hint of acetone under a dried outer shell it messes with the coating and the oven spends a bunch of time drying bullets, not heating them. I like to make sure they are totally dry, I tend to let em sit overnight or at least for a few hours. Even an hour sitting in the sun would help.

Getting complete curing ring isn't that tough, it just means you need to find what works in your oven. Smaller batches, longer time, hotter temp, something has to work. Keep playing with it.

My reply is included above...

[HATCH]

This process has many variables. You need to find what works best for you.
1 to 3 tablespoons to @1/4 cup of acetone.
What I have found is that the more powder you mix in, the shorter the drying time will be.
2 tablespoons to 1/4 cup (100ml) seems to work the best for me now

[Gateway Bullets]

20 Grams =0.706 oz, 0.706oz = 308.87gr

Thank ya sir!

Most online conversion programs work on fluid measurement and not dry weight. The best way to mix the powder is by WEIGHT! Get your powder scales out and actually weigh the powder before you use it. But my measurement stands, It is 2-3 TABLESPOONS. There are so many variables to measuring the powder. Is is loose, is it packed, is it mounded.... you get the point. When I weighed my powder per TABLESPOON, it weighed between 7.0 to 8.0 grams. So the 2-3 tablespoons will get you in the ball park as to what is needed. It is up to the individual to determine what works best for them.

[leadman]

atygrit, I think your bake time might be too short. Make sure the first application of the coating passes the wipe and smash test as it does no good to bake longer on the additional coats to get it to pass the tests. If the boolits do not pass the test stick them back in the oven for another baking. I usually water cool a boolit from the tray if using a new or different coating/boolit. If ok I take the tray out, if not continue to make and check in 5 minutes.
I have found the powdered & 1035 coatings can withstand a longer bake time without making the coating brittle. I bake until the Gold is just starting to darken and it seems to work well.

[Rompin Ruger]

NOt to confuse readers even more, but I was trying to figure out Tablespoons to ounces and the source I found said that there is NO standard World-wide UNIT of MEASURE for Tablespoons...they differ from one's bought in USA, to England and again to Australia! FWIW...

I don't have the exact differences.

I'm almost GLAD I have the liquid. I did the 5-7-1 ratio and did it measuring with 1/2 Tablespoons...gave me a good bit... enough to coat two batches (102 each) of the big 45-270gr boolits... 2 coats! I still have some left I figured would need to be thrown out next time I get around to coating. I don't shoot like you guys who do large quantities.

[btroj]

Thanks Gateway.

Guys, think this thru. We all have a powder scale, don't we? Use whatever you want to measure the powder then weigh it. Find out the volume it takes to get 308 gr then you have your answer.

it ain't rocket science, just basic measuring, conversions, and thinking.

[Ausglock]

Yep. the $5 digi scales on eBay are well worth it.

Some of the DRY-TEK powders have different density to others, so working on weight rather than volume is the go.