Graf & SonsADvertise hereLee PrecisionRotoMetals2
Inline FabricationTitan ReloadingStainLess Steel Media

Page 457 of 463 FirstFirst ... 357407447448449450451452453454455456457458459460461462463 LastLast
Results 9,121 to 9,140 of 9260

Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #9121
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South West Ohio
    Posts
    1,359
    So I've been reading and watching the videos about using low temp on powder coating so as not to soften the lead.

    What is the situation regarding Hi-Tek? Am I losing hardness by repeated heating to 400 degrees for 8 to 12 minutes?

    On the final heat I water dump them out of habit.

    I typically use 3 coats and heat at 400 degrees for 10 minutes and then water drop them. I've never bothered to check the hardness because I've been fortunate enough to be able to use straight Linotype. Am I softening up my Linotype?
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

  2. #9122
    Boolit Master
    Ausglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    NSW North Coast, Australia
    Posts
    2,134
    HITEK coated Alloy MUST, Must reach AT LEAST 185 Deg C!!!!! for AT LEAST 2 minutes for the coating to fully cure.
    That is why I do 200Deg C for 7 1/2 minutes in the Wall oven and 12 minutes in the benchtop ovens.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  3. #9123
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South West Ohio
    Posts
    1,359
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    HITEK coated Alloy MUST, Must reach AT LEAST 185 Deg C!!!!! for AT LEAST 2 minutes for the coating to fully cure.
    That is why I do 200Deg C for 7 1/2 minutes in the Wall oven and 12 minutes in the benchtop ovens.
    I get that, and I'm not going to alter or play with those recommendations at all. It works too well. What I'm worried about is what that continued 400 degree heating and reheating does to the hardness of the lead. According to what I've read, it can drop the lead hardness by half. That's a problem, if it's true, and it doesn't come back through age hardening over time.
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

  4. #9124
    Boolit Master
    Ausglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    NSW North Coast, Australia
    Posts
    2,134
    No problem with 2,6,92 alloy.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  5. #9125
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South West Ohio
    Posts
    1,359
    Has anyone tested what the alloy hardness is before they cook the bullets compared to after? I may have to do that. It would be interesting to see what happens to my Linotype bullets after 3 coatings and 3 trips through the oven at 400 degrees for 10 minutes and then water dropped....and then what they are a week later.

    Also, you mentioned 12 minutes in a benchtop oven and 8 minutes in a stove. I've only been doing 10 minutes on my benchtop and things seem to be fine. On your recomendation though, I'm going to move to 12 minutes on each cook. Is there a downside this? Can I over cook them?
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

  6. #9126
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    617
    I use range scrap. That is all I can get and it is all I can afford. The testing was done with a cabine tree tester. After casting and before coating the bullets tested around 10 bhn. Water quench on the last bake and testing two days later the bhn was 12 to 15. Checked some yesterday that have been setting for about a month and are still holding at the 12 to 15 range. I don't know how your linotype will react. Lee makes a hardness tester that is around fifty bucks last I heard.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  7. #9127
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pleasant Hope MO
    Posts
    671
    Quote Originally Posted by AbitNutz View Post
    Has anyone tested what the alloy hardness is before they cook the bullets compared to after? I may have to do that. It would be interesting to see what happens to my Linotype bullets after 3 coatings and 3 trips through the oven at 400 degrees for 10 minutes and then water dropped....and then what they are a week later.

    Also, you mentioned 12 minutes in a benchtop oven and 8 minutes in a stove. I've only been doing 10 minutes on my benchtop and things seem to be fine. On your recomendation though, I'm going to move to 12 minutes on each cook. Is there a downside this? Can I over cook them?
    Your Linotype bullets will return to the original hardness after a week or more just like it does after casting. In my experience you can get leading from Linotype if they are not sized to fit the bore, I consider Linotype too hard for bullets and I mix Linotype 50/50 with pure lead and makes about a 6-2-92 alloy.

    There is no downside to over baking the coating it just makes the color darker and shoots fine, getting the first coat dry is the most important step.
    I bake for 12 min at just over 400 deg F.

  8. #9128
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    331
    Broke in two new .459" moulds in and got some bullets cast and coated.

    The first one is a NOE mould that was designed to make bullets mainly for the .458 SOCOM but then a crimp groove was added so it could also be used in 45-70 rounds. As you can see it was also made just for coating as it has no lube grooves. I coated these in Bronze 500, added a gator gas check and sized them to .459" The final weight was right at 360 grs.



    The second one is also a NOE mould that I got to cast heavy (500 gr.) bullets for subsonic loads in the .458 SOCOM but this could also be used in single shot 45-70 loads. This was also a coated bullet only mould and was coated with Bronze 500 and sized to .459"


  9. #9129
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by AbitNutz View Post
    Has anyone tested what the alloy hardness is before they cook the bullets compared to after? I may have to do that. It would be interesting to see what happens to my Linotype bullets after 3 coatings and 3 trips through the oven at 400 degrees for 10 minutes and then water dropped....and then what they are a week later.

    Also, you mentioned 12 minutes in a benchtop oven and 8 minutes in a stove. I've only been doing 10 minutes on my benchtop and things seem to be fine. On your recomendation though, I'm going to move to 12 minutes on each cook. Is there a downside this? Can I over cook them?
    I did a little test before and after with hi Tek just for my own peace of mind. I was using COWW and air cooling. Before 1st coat of Hi-Tek they were coming in at 14.3 bhn with my Lee tester. After coating twice (the amount I normally do) they were coming in at 11bhn. After a week and a half of age hardening they were at 12.5 bhn. So it seems you lose some hardness initially, but you do regain some over time. 12.5 seems to be plenty hard for what I'm doing so I'm satisfied with the standard procedure for hi tek

  10. #9130
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6,929
    I posted this on another thread but I'll put it here too. Made an alloy with 0.8%Sb/0.5%Cu/1% Zn. Hitek'd coated 165 gr for 40sw - AC, just BLL on 185 gr GCd 30/30. Both worked fine, no WD needed. My normal poor levergun shooting. ~1800 fps. Top 2 are sierra jacketed.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	TgtGfx21.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	47.7 KB 
ID:	203623
    Whatever!

  11. #9131
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South West Ohio
    Posts
    1,359
    Yeah, that's what I was worried about. You lost 22% of your hardness immediately. It gained back 14% after a week. Those are significant loses on an alloy in the 10 to 15 bhn range.

    I don't know if Linotype acts the same way but if it does, I'm talking about a water drop bhn of upwards of 25 or 26 and an ultimate hardness of about 22 bhn after a week. I guess that's not too bad. I'm hard pressed to think of something I can't do at a bhn of 22. 22 bhn is brutally hard lead.

    Some reports I have seen are of 50% and are not recovering a significant amount after aging...Imagine starting out with 15 bhn and ending up with under 10. That would be a real problem.
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

  12. #9132
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sth Oz - A Land Downunder
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Range scrap can vary a great deal in hardness. It depends on hw many .22 soft bullets get melted with the centrefire lead bullets.
    True. I use a plastic garden sieve that I bought at Bunnings and find most of the .22 falls through the holes, just leaving .38/9mm.

  13. #9133
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    617
    AbitNutz, sounds like you need to invest in a hardness tester. Then you will have a good idea of what is going on. It would be interesting to see how the linotype reacts.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  14. #9134
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    617
    Okay guys, changing subject, If you need to continue with the hardness question won't bother me. This information may have already been found out by someone else and I really don't think it is worth much. My son and I did some chronograph testing with powder coated bullets and hi-tek coated bullets. This was a NOE 358429 hollowbase mold. Bullets around the 158 weight. Used 4.0 grains of unique powder. On average the hi-tek bullets were around 50 fps faster than the powder coat bullets. We were using a smith&wesson model 64 four inch barrel revolver. I though it was interesting. THIS IS NOT A MY COATING IS FASTER THAN YOUR COATING POST.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  15. #9135
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sth Oz - A Land Downunder
    Posts
    1,643
    Hmm, PC crowd won't like that .

  16. #9136
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    I use range scrap. That is all I can get and it is all I can afford. The testing was done with a cabine tree tester. After casting and before coating the bullets tested around 10 bhn. Water quench on the last bake and testing two days later the bhn was 12 to 15. Checked some yesterday that have been setting for about a month and are still holding at the 12 to 15 range. I don't know how your linotype will react. Lee makes a hardness tester that is around fifty bucks last I heard.
    So just to clarify, are you saying you WQ after about 10 minutes in a 400 degree oven? And you get that big of a hardness jump?

    I didn't think 10 minutes would be long enough to really cause an effect on the hardness if quenched. I may have to try this out just for the sake of it

  17. #9137
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6,929
    Range scrap is pretty soft and MAY not WQ at all. Normal age hardening can increase BHN a couple points. My post 9130 shows you can add 0.5-1% Zn to range scrap that has a tad of Sb and get an alloy that doesn't need to be WQ. I added Zn to pure, it helped but not that much. This is the 40sw target, 2x HITek, 400F for 12 min. AC. Top shots are WWbox.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	TgtGfx1.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	53.7 KB 
ID:	203650
    Whatever!

  18. #9138
    Boolit Master benellinut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by AbitNutz View Post
    Yeah, that's what I was worried about. You lost 22% of your hardness immediately. It gained back 14% after a week. Those are significant loses on an alloy in the 10 to 15 bhn range.

    I don't know if Linotype acts the same way but if it does, I'm talking about a water drop bhn of upwards of 25 or 26 and an ultimate hardness of about 22 bhn after a week. I guess that's not too bad. I'm hard pressed to think of something I can't do at a bhn of 22. 22 bhn is brutally hard lead.

    Some reports I have seen are of 50% and are not recovering a significant amount after aging...Imagine starting out with 15 bhn and ending up with under 10. That would be a real problem.
    Just a thought, try baking some without any coating following the directions as if you were coating them and see what happens. I may be wrong and I'm sure the guys will correct me if I am but I can't believe the coating would have any impact on the hardness so it may be a test you could run and see what you get after baking? Am I off base guys?
    Be careful what you wish for!

  19. #9139
    Boolit Master bfuller14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    160
    AbitNutz,
    Try to contact leadman on here.
    He did some testing with linotype on here early on.( pg. 31 post 619)
    Maybe he can help.

  20. #9140
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sth Oz - A Land Downunder
    Posts
    1,643
    "Range scrap is pretty soft". I guess that's going to depend on the range itself where it comes from? If it's used by every man and his dog (public range?) then yeah, it could have anything in it. At the range where I collect mine as far as I know very few (if any) cast their own, it all appears to be commercial stuff. There is the odd bit of pure from muzzleloaders and a bit of .22, but when I'm melting 100+ kilos at a time that's pretty insignificant.

Page 457 of 463 FirstFirst ... 357407447448449450451452453454455456457458459460461462463 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check