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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #8981
    Boolit Master HI-TEK's Avatar
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    Range report

    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    No appreciable difference. The H4895 doesn't seem to have that problem. Or It may be that my ammo is stored on it's butt before using?

    Range Report:

    Shot 30 rounds of .308 coated with Bronze 500 in four, five and six shot groups.

    Was testing the effects of doing some modifications to the cases; primer pocket uniforming and flash hole deburring. Cases were trimmed to length, weighed, and segregated to within two grains. Also shot some cases with only the primer pocket uniformed, trimmed and segregated by weight. The last time I fired the deburred cases I wasn't impressed with the groups but this time one of the loads gave me an inch and a half group. Average speed was 2586 fps standard deviation 17.7. Looks like the one to use with the deburred flash hole.

    What was really interesting was a group I shot with a some cases that didn't have the deburring done. They did have the primer pocket uniformed and were segregated by weight. I got four shots in less than 1/2" at 100 yards the fifth shot made it a 1" group at 2600+ fps standard deviation was 10.9. This has been my usual 1 1/2" group load. Point, which has been made before, you can have all the accuracy you want with Hi Tek.

    Wish I could post some photos. Sent the one with the four in one hole by email to Donnie.
    How are you doing Avenger 442?
    Thanks much for your report and findings.
    Can I please ask you to supply more details?
    I would be very interested in various aspects and main ones that are of interest is;
    1. Which alloy did you use?
    2. What was powder quantity?
    3. Were they gas checked?
    4.How did results compare with Jacketed ammo?
    I ask this as I was told, that commercial Jacketed ammo offers about a 4 inch accuracy spread at 100 yards. Is this correct?
    Can you please supply any other information that may assist other users to get similar results to what you obtained.
    Thanks much
    Hi-Tek

  2. #8982
    Boolit Master
    Ausglock's Avatar
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    Does the oven have top and bottom heating elements?
    Show a picture of how much wipeoff you are getting?
    A little will not hurt.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  3. #8983
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Avenger442, You are doing one heck of a job on this project. Shooting down a lot of misconceptions about hi-tek. Again I salute you.
    Boolits !!!!! Does that mean what I think it do? It do!

  4. #8984
    Boolit Master HI-TEK's Avatar
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    Range report

    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    Avenger442, You are doing one heck of a job on this project. Shooting down a lot of misconceptions about hi-tek. Again I salute you.
    Hello Slide,
    I agree with you 110%.
    Avenger442 is doing a great job with this.
    What is now very pleasing is, that I have stated many times, that the Hi-Tek coating, is not what fails or not performs, but all engineering areas require to be fixed first, and all should be well. The coatings cannot correct engineering problems.
    Avenger442, has now confirmed such things as an independent tester, and has proven, that if all care is done, the results will be just as expected.
    Also, that coated Cast alloys can be used in high velocity applications without being a Jacketed Lead.
    Thank you all for your great work.

  5. #8985
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    How are you doing Avenger 442?
    Thanks much for your report and findings.
    Can I please ask you to supply more details?
    I would be very interested in various aspects and main ones that are of interest is;
    1. Which alloy did you use?
    2. What was powder quantity?
    3. Were they gas checked?
    4.How did results compare with Jacketed ammo?
    I ask this as I was told, that commercial Jacketed ammo offers about a 4 inch accuracy spread at 100 yards. Is this correct?
    Can you please supply any other information that may assist other users to get similar results to what you obtained.
    Thanks much
    Hi-Tek
    1. Alloy is 88% COWW 10% Lino Type 2% tin. BHN is around 16.
    2. Load that produced the four under 1/2" and one inch over all was 41.5 grain H4895, CCI large rifle primer. I was working with several loads with cases that had different things done to them to prevent some of the flyers I was getting. So I guess you could say that the group was under 1/2" with a flyer that made it 1" .
    3. Yes they were gas checked bullets. I don't know any other way to shoot lead at this pressure without them.
    4. I have shot Remington Core Lock (hunting ammo) in this gun average groups would be 2 - 3". Have shot one box of Federal Gold Match ammo through it (and don't want to spend the money for any more) that gave me groups under an inch.

    Understand that this is not me standing up holding the gun. Those groups would probably be in the 2 - 3" arena. Sometimes 4" depending on how many cups of coffee I've had or how cold it is outside Because I'm testing the load and not me I'm securing the gun down in a weighted Lead Sled on a bench. Kind of like bench rest shooting but not exactly.

    Future plan is to reload those same five cases in the same way and some more cases prepped the same way with exactly the same load and go back to the range to see if the 1" is typical. I'm thinking that some of these cases, other than those five, will probably spread the groups a little because of the metal left around the inside of the flash holes during manufacture. It causes the powder to burn different and speeds of bullet to differ more. If I can get the cases that I have removed that metal from to do 1" that will solve that problem. Either way, makes a killer hunting load out to 300 yards. Which is more than I will ever shoot anyway. Can't even see good with a scope at that distance.

    A lot of work but it will be worth it if I can know that I can cast a bullet, coat it, load 20, for under a couple of bucks and get the same performance that I get out of a box of .308 ammo that cost $40. Because of my past training from my Dad, squeeze a penny till it screams Bill, I'll be very happy.
    Last edited by Avenger442; 07-25-2017 at 01:15 PM.
    I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  6. #8986
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin c View Post
    OK, new to casting, new to HiTek. What I've done so far works great, but a few questions to those in the know. Do I need a new oven (I think so)? Is a little wipe off from the Black Cherry OK?

    I used Rotometals hardball to eliminate alloy concerns. Finally I am getting the hang of using my slick side 147 grain molds from Accurate. I'm using the HiTek release. Two coats of Black Cherry, mixed with a weighed 20 grams to a measured 120 ml acetone (reading the thread [all of it, twice], I got the impression that 20 to 100 was the equivalent of 5-1-5 of the liquid, and wanted to match the 5-1-7 that Ausglock was using). The mix was left to stand to react. Had a couple reject bullets in the container for agitation. Used a long tube on a syringe to pull up the solution from the middle of the bottle, but didn't delay after shaking. 6 ml on 5# of casts, shaken in a closed container for about 20 seconds, another 5 or so with the lid off, dumped on mesh before the sound change but with the container not wet. Dried over night.

    20 grams to 120 mil is generally used durring hotter weather, you can also substitute 20 mil M.E.K. or Denatured alcohol to slow down the drying time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock
    Did a bit of testing over the weekend.
    1st coat was 4mls to 2.5Kg.
    second coat 6mls to 2.5Kg.
    This resulted in a far shinier finish and no visible touch marks.
    time and temp remained the same as did the mix ratio. Your first coat could have been to thick


    The oven is a 15 dollar used convection toaster oven. Temp measured via K probe on a DVOM, preheated, and with the probe left in the oven during the bake. Bake times ran 12 to 22 minutes for each of the two coats.

    if the oven is reaching 200 / 400 degrees 22 min is excessive I would doubled check the temperature, your K probe could be off (it happens but not often. I like to use 2 oven thermometers set in the middle of the shelf I bake on and adjust the oven setting until the 2 thermometers reach 200 / 400 IF the 2 thermometers don't match, get a third to find 2 that match. Many controls the oven with a PID, I haven't found the need. If you do decide to use a PID you should wire the circulating fan to be on perminantly of you'll burn it out. Another "trick is to line the bottom of your oven with heat retaining media, I use ceramic BBQ briquettes, others use fire brick, metal plate ... this helps get the oven back to temperature faster after opening the door

    The reason for the prolonged bake times was that I kept getting wipe off. Not a lot, but a little, that only went away when the bake time hit 20 minutes. Despite having the probe verify the temp (200 to 205 C through out the bake), the bullets did not darken much at all - I got the nice cherry color that is shown in the photos in post 8595. All smash tests fine, and no leading through my Glock factory barrels.

    So I am very happy with the HiTek, but am wondering about the long bake times. I did note that the temps I got were with the probe right over the tray, but with the probe just under the mesh tray it was 20 degrees cooler. The fan seemed to work, but I don't know just how much the temp should vary vertically in a convection oven.

    I read that some of the powders were color saturated - could that explain the wipe off? I also read comments that maybe the powder components can separate. I didn't shake up the dry powder before measuring it out.

    New oven (Breville) on the way. Any comments/suggestions? TIA


    Welcome to Hi-Tek coating. HITEK is the industrial chemist that makes it, Ausglock tests the coatin and Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings sells the coating. If they can't answer your questions, no-one can.

  7. #8987
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    145gr PB going 1800 fps @ 100, 300BO. H.T. isocore 3x gold 1035. Only recorded testing I did in rifle with the powder version. As you can see my shooting wasn't very good that day. I did find recently that when recycling coated, let them melt, then add some wax and burn it. Coating basically burns away. No skimming the remains out.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Whatever!

  8. #8988
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    145gr PB going 1800 fps @ 100, 300BO. H.T. isocore 3x gold 1035. Only recorded testing I did in rifle with the powder version. As you can see my shooting wasn't very good that day. I did find recently that when recycling coated, let them melt, then add some wax and burn it. Coating basically burns away. No skimming the remains out.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Popper
    Good to hear from you man. Last time we talked you were using Hi Tek only in your hand guns and using powder coating in your rifles. Is this the target you showed us sometime back or have you started back trying Hi Tek in your rifle? Was this target shot off of a rest on a bench?

    I've had some of my targets look like that when the powder load was wrong. And sometimes had to change powder to different one. Had several five shot groups with some of these modified cases that were 3-4" two that all of them didn't make it on paper. It seems that if you deburr the flash hole it makes the powder burn different. So I had to adjust the load to tighten. Was very disappointed in the first results with the modified cases. Even started a thread to see what I might do to correct. After adjusting the load down some they came into a 1 1/2" group. Which might me as tight as I can get this powder. Of course I'm the constant tinkerer as someone on this thread said. I still don't know how I got into this "have to have it one inch or under" thing. I was just hunting some good loads to take into the woods. Now I spend more time at the range than in the woods.
    I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  9. #8989
    Boolit Master benellinut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    Popper
    Good to hear from you man. Last time we talked you were using Hi Tek only in your hand guns and using powder coating in your rifles. Is this the target you showed us sometime back or have you started back trying Hi Tek in your rifle? Was this target shot off of a rest on a bench?

    I've had some of my targets look like that when the powder load was wrong. And sometimes had to change powder to different one. Had several five shot groups with some of these modified cases that were 3-4" two that all of them didn't make it on paper. It seems that if you deburr the flash hole it makes the powder burn different. So I had to adjust the load to tighten. Was very disappointed in the first results with the modified cases. Even started a thread to see what I might do to correct. After adjusting the load down some they came into a 1 1/2" group. Which might me as tight as I can get this powder. Of course I'm the constant tinkerer as someone on this thread said. I still don't know how I got into this "have to have it one inch or under" thing. I was just hunting some good loads to take into the woods. Now I spend more time at the range than in the woods.
    I understand the drive to reload ammo that gets you those tight groups. When I started shooting Bullseye matches and had the determination to improve I knew I'd need more accurate guns and ammo to match them. I started reading and seeking advice from some of the best shooters, to my surprise I was told not to worry about loading ammo that would shoot clover leaf holes but rather spend my time honing my shooting skills. This never made sense to me, if the gun and ammo won't shoot where you aim each and every time how do you know if a bad shot was me, the gun or the ammo? Yeah, yeah, I know how to call my shots and I do, but calling a shot in the six ring and it's in the eight doesn't prove if you were in error calling the shot or if it was the gun or ammo. I dismissed the advice not to worry about accurate ammo and I strove to produce ammo that would shoot those tight groups consistently, when there was a poor shot I knew it was me!

    At the age of 47 I was in my "Bullseye" prime, I climbed into the upper end of the Expert class and worked hard to jump to the next when the pain that had been in my lower back started showing up in my neck, wasn't long and my right arm was effected then the hand started to shake, my scores plummeted. After a couple years of frustration with further decline I gave up Bullseye, it just wasn't fun anymore. I miss it dearly, all I have left is guns that shoot far better then I can, awards, plaques, metals (that no one cares about) and some great memory's.

    Anywho, to me, making ammo is as much fun as shooting. Tinkering to make the best ammo I can for each gun I own is as awesomely gratifying.
    Be careful what you wish for!

  10. #8990
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Avenger - from a while back when I first tried HiTek in rifle. Haven't gotten back to it yet, PC works for me. Caldwell stand & bag. IIRC that was an upper with loose bore that I sent on to SIL as he only shoots jacketed.
    Right hand holes are 1035 gold, others are Smoke's black and some Amaxes. I've been playing with alloys this year and it's just easier to BLL or spray them as I'm doing small batches. I changed uppers from 1:7 to 1:10 and moulds from 145C to 142C, just a slight adjustment that works better. Only posted as you seem to be the single OP that shows results in HV rifle, wanted to add that it does work well. I have noticed that uncoated bases shoot more accurately, GC or not, for HV rifle. Need a good flat base with even edges.
    Whatever!

  11. #8991


    This is the target Avenger442 sent me. Looks like some nice shooting and a very promising load!

  12. #8992


    Here is another target from a gent in Kansas

  13. #8993
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Popper
    We all use what works in our guns; right? That's what I do.

    benellinut
    I'm probably too old to shoot Bullseye. It's not so much the body as it is the eyes. I'm okay at 100 yards with a 24 X scope and probably 200. But beyond that and it's a guess. One of the guys I used to shoot with had a scope that was so powerful that a raspberry filled the scope at 100 yards. Didn't help his groups any. We do what we enjoy to the extent that we can. I used to weigh 160 lbs and ran cross country when I was 17. Have trouble running down the block now. Will not say what I weigh. But I can still load ammo that will shoot as good as a $40 box of store bought for less than two dollars. And put those shells in tight group on target from a rest. It sounds like you enjoy it as much as I do.

    Donnie
    I knew that there had to be some other guys out there that were sending you targets. Nothing sells like accuracy in my book.
    I"m like Popper, ifn it aint working and aint gonna ever work for me I don't use it. I'm still not sold on the deburring flash holes thing. Standard deviation is more uniform but that's not all you need for a tight group. I've only deburred 20 for that reason.
    I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check