simple Hi-Tek coating

[HI-TEK]

I have tinkered with attempting to recover gold and silver from old computer scrap, the research i have done on the internet has pointed out that to dissolve base metals, you actually want dilute acid.

When the metal is being dissolved, it needs somewhere to go, it doesn't just evaporate, if the acid is really concentrated, there is less water for it to go into solution than a dilute mix. I'm sure Joe will set me straight on this if i'm wrong.

Tazza, Right on. A dilute acid soak is far better. Strong acids as you said have small amounts of water and dissolving base metals saturate system very quickly and this slows up cleaning. Hydrochloric acid salts of base metals is quite soluble in water so more water faster is solubility of base metals, and other benefit, much less acid vapours/fumes.

[Petander]

Another before/after soak pic:



After coating:

[HI-TEK]

Another before/after soak pic:



After coating:

Hello Petander
They are interesting projectiles. What sort of gun are they shot from?
The dark appearance on the acid soaked alloy seems to have disappeared.
That gold looks pretty good.

[Tazza]

I believe they are shotgun slugs

[SAndy37]

Thanks Joe, Tazza

Will try diluting the acid and see how it works, it can only be cheaper and safer. We do all the acid washing outside next to a water point and on a level gravel surface far away from any flammables, with the necessary OHS gear being worn. I didnt think of the Bicarb neutraliser, thanks- will get some on hand as well. You guys all have a great weekend! A

[Petander]

Hello Petander
They are interesting projectiles. What sort of gun are they shot from?
The dark appearance on the acid soaked alloy seems to have disappeared.
That gold looks pretty good.

These are .575 dia minie bullets for blackpowder guns but I've been fooling around with 20 gauge shotgun loads.

I got a little creative when coating these,trying to cover the hollow bases I let them swim in heavily diluted coating solution at first.

[kevin c]

Petander, what dilution did you use? I'm experimenting right now with 20 grams in 200 ml acetone for the same reason. 4.5 ml for 2.5 Kg seems to coat the wad cutter HP OK, bu I haven't baked them yet.

[HI-TEK]

Petander, what dilution did you use? I'm experimenting right now with 20 grams in 200 ml acetone for the same reason. 4.5 ml for 2.5 Kg seems to coat the wad cutter HP OK, bu I haven't baked them yet.

kevin c
If this is first coat, and you have dried them well first, baking should work out OK.
Tests will tell you all.
Diluting with extra Acetone for a thin first coat is not a problem.
I think that 4.5 mls of such diluted mixture for 2.5 kilo is a little light.
Not a problem however if you get reasonable coverage even though it looks blotchy..
It can be regarded as a "primer coat".
If first primer coat tests out OK after bake, you can consider using a 20/150 for second coat.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Joe, Tazza

Will try diluting the acid and see how it works, it can only be cheaper and safer. We do all the acid washing outside next to a water point and on a level gravel surface far away from any flammables, with the necessary OHS gear being worn. I didnt think of the Bicarb neutraliser, thanks- will get some on hand as well. You guys all have a great weekend! A

SAndy37
when using Bicarb Soda to neutralise Hydrochloric acid you end up with Sodium Chloride in water, (essentially salt solution)
Not a hazardous material. Even if using excess Bicarb soda it is not hazardous, as non neutralised acid.

[Petander]

Petander, what dilution did you use? I'm experimenting right now with 20 grams in 200 ml acetone for the same reason. 4.5 ml for 2.5 Kg seems to coat the wad cutter HP OK, bu I haven't baked them yet.

I diluted the basic mix down to about 1/4 strength by adding denatured alcohol. That way I can swirl for minutes. The wet bullets may dry a bit unevenly but following coat(s) will make everything nice and even.

I didn't even pre-mix the alcohol,just poured some in the container on top of the bullets,then added the full strength solution and swirled.

[kevin c]

Thanks Joe, thanks Petander.

The first coat definitely looks like a light, blotchy watercolor-like stain/tint. I've used it as a first coat followed by a second 5 ml coat of 20 g in 120 ml of the Black Cherry, and have good coverage.

I plan on doing the hollowpoints with three 4.5 to 5 ml coats of the 20 g in 200 ml, which will give slightly more total solids than the two coats I used as described above. I'll post pix if I can bring myself to open a photobucket account, or delete some of my previously posted pix here.

[Ausglock]

G'day Everyone.
Just got backhome from the 2019 IPSC Australia Handgun Nationals Competition in Sydney.

Great match and many interesting stages.
I shot very good with only 2 misses for the 20 stages.
Young dansedgli shot like a demon all competition. Congrats Dan.

Was interesting to see the bullets used by the competitors. probably 75% were coated lead, while the rest were copper plated.
A local importer of copper plated bullets had a sign up saying that coated lead bullets were a dying product. However, talking to shooters, They have found that the copper plated are not as accurate as coated lead when pushed to higher velocities to make Major power factor.
There were a large number of shooters using my Kryptonite Green bullets and Red ones from Black Widow Bullets in Victoria.

dansedgli Was using his own cast and coated bullets for the match. Congrats, Dan. Great to put a face to the name of a Legend.

[HI-TEK]

G'day Everyone.
Just got backhome from the 2019 IPSC Australia Handgun Nationals Competition in Sydney.

Great match and many interesting stages.
I shot very good with only 2 misses for the 20 stages.
Young dansedgli shot like a demon all competition. Congrats Dan.

Was interesting to see the bullets used by the competitors. probably 75% were coated lead, while the rest were copper plated.
A local importer of copper plated bullets had a sign up saying that coated lead bullets were a dying product. However, talking to shooters, They have found that the copper plated are not as accurate as coated lead when pushed to higher velocities to make Major power factor.
There were a large number of shooters using my Kryptonite Green bullets and Red ones from Black Widow Bullets in Victoria.

dansedgli Was using his own cast and coated bullets for the match. Congrats, Dan. Great to put a face to the name of a Legend.

Ausglock
I have had several reports of the Copper Coated products.
Apparently the comments made was that when trying to get power factors up, the plated Copper simply shredded/peeled off the Lead.
I don't have the specific details of what was done to get that failure, but had to simply listen to advice being provided.
May be it is an area that needs investigation by users to actually detail what had happened.
Some commented, that they had to clean Copper residues from the bore afterwards.
We all know what happens with Copper cleaners and bores, when using chemicals that dissolve/clean Copper, that is bonded to the bore.

[Ausglock]

Just cleaned my STI Trubor.
I must say. After 375 rounds with Zero cleaning of the bore, 1 pass of a boresnake and the bore is spotless and shiny bright. My loads chronoes at 1424FPS with a 125gn Bullet for power factor of 178 in 38 Supercomp. If that isn't a great outcome for coated lead bullets, Nothing is!

[HI-TEK]

Just cleaned my STI Trubor.
I must say. After 375 rounds with Zero cleaning of the bore, 1 pass of a boresnake and the bore is spotless and shiny bright. My loads chronoes at 1424FPS with a 125gn Bullet for power factor of 178 in 38 Supercomp. If that isn't a great outcome for coated lead bullets, Nothing is!

Ausglock,
According to the advertising by Tiger Shark local agent, the Coated alloy is on the way out.
What is of interest is, how would the Copper Plated Tiger Shark product perform at same conditions as you quoted? Actual direct comparisons are very useful to prove or disprove sales promotion claims.
How much Copper would end up in the bore after 375 rounds being shot? Also, would there be loss of accuracy when the Copper starts to deposit in the bore?

[Ausglock]

The plated work OK.. I haven't fired enough of them to see what sort of copper deposits are left in the bore.

[Petander]

I used to shoot a lot more handguns than I do now.

I have tried copper plated in the 90's for the first time and many times ever since, in many handgun calibers.
It's the worst of the both worlds to me. You never know what happens unless you load very mild. They actually break in pieces. I understand there are different versions of electroplating around the world but this has been my experience. Nobody competes with plated bullets around here,it's all j-bullets.

[HI-TEK]

I used to shoot a lot more handguns than I do now.

I have tried copper plated in the 90's for the first time and many times ever since, in many handgun calibers.
It's the worst of the both worlds to me. You never know what happens unless you load very mild. They actually break in pieces. I understand there are different versions of electroplating around the world but this has been my experience. Nobody competes with plated bullets around here,it's all j-bullets.

Petander,
with Copper Jackets, I believe that a thin flexible foil of Copper is enveloped around Lead.
Each manufacturer/supplier has their own idea of which Copper foil is adequate and each has their own idea of Copper film thickness and other physical properties.

The encapsulated Lead used/enveloped by Copper Foil, is normally only Lead, and it is soft so it has expansion ability to stretch Copper Foil and seal it onto the Barrel.
The Copper foil used, stretches with hydraulic deformation to seal bore and is dependent on foil thickness & hardness.

If Copper Plated is being examined in comparison, the Copper deposit is not a solid foil of Copper, but atoms of Copper is deposited onto the Lead surface and onto deposited Copper.
If surface is magnified, the deposit seems a porous metal surface.

I question, if plated Copper has adequate strength or ability to keep projectile whole and contained, especially when deformation of Lead is occurring during shooting.

Electroplated Copper, can be vey brittle or very soft, depending on plating chemicals and process.
One electroplated Copper process is Acid type, and the other is Cyanide type. They can both produce totally different type of Copper Plating and resulting deposit has great differences with tensile strength and hardness.
Electrodeposit property such as density and hardness of plated Copper, is also greatly affected by Voltage and Amps used to plate the Lead.

The whole idea of Jacketed and or Plated Lead, is the intent to stop Lead becoming in contact with the bore, and stop/reduce Fouling and increase in accuracy.

Down side is that if Jacketed or plated Copper is used, there is no lubrication, and frictional heat generated, which simply deposits Copper from both onto the Barrel.
Depending on how or what Copper is used to cover/envelope the Lead, can greatly vary results obtained in actual shooting conditions, and subsequent Copper fouling.
As some have found, if incorrect Copper coat or Jacket is used, the results are less than satisfactory.

I find it interesting, that all who jockey around with trying to get market share, cannot supply any comparative data to support any claims made such as an example quote, "Ours is better than the guys up the road."
Where is the proof????

It seems to me, that attitude is, shiny, shiny, never mind the quality or the proof, with supporting data.

Marketing strategy appears to be, to attack any competitors with innuendo to try and discredit and hopefully resulting in increase in market share, coupled with trying to get market share by discounting or under cutting prices of existing competitors.

My other concerns are, that when users of these products, find that their barrel is worn out , what then?
Cheap products may end up being very costly indeed.

[dikman]

I seriously doubt if coated boolits are "on the way out", there are many ranges here in SA where jacketed/copper plated ammunition is not allowed (this is a Police stipulation when giving range approval), it's either plain lead or Hi-Tek/PC type coatings. Besides, people on this forum have shown just how much these two coatings can be pushed performance-wise.

[Gatch]

I can't really give any imperical data, but a lot of the shooters at my club use tigershark plated because the importer is a member and the price is right. Noone seems to have any complaints so far. In saying that I'm still super keen to make my own to cut the cost down.