simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

Congrats to Dan for the win at the Victoria State titles for IPSC Standard Division.
Well done, Dan

[dansedgli]

Thanks Trev. I came home and cast more projies.

[Petander]

Tomorrow I’ll shoot for 180 internal (356) and try pre-heat.

FWIW when my bullet probe reads 180°C inside, the surface of that same exact bullet is already 195°C measured with IR.

I have my probe alarm set @ 170°C. Then my surface temps are average 182-185°C.

IR meters are handy to add to confusion.

[RydForLyf]

Can you advise, about internal bullet temperatures?
Is temperature probe inserted into coated cast or plain Lead?
If your probe is in plain Lead, the actually coated cast can be at greatly different temperature.
Where is your probe located in your tray. Can the heating element burn coating with radiant heat?
The coating you are using, was pre tested several times over about 3 months, by different people and before it was sent to the US.
The baked coating which remained Blue, came out of the oven at 195C. (383F)
I don't know or understand, why suddenly such results are totally different now.

Internal bullet temp hit 365F at 5:30. Went 2 minutes more as instructed.
Probe is in a matching bullet but uncoated, so temp rises quicker meaning less cooking time.
Probed bullet is in middle of tray, surrounded by bullets, to mimic all the other bullets.
Oven has elements below and element above. Bullets are in middle slot, equal distance from elements.

I’ve seen the photos and believe them. Looks like Avenger442 and I got some of that first batch. I ordered on 2/12. I wonder how Burnt Fingers is making out.

I’ll play more today and add some pictures.

Cheers!

[RydForLyf]

FWIW when my bullet probe reads 180°C inside, the surface of that same exact bullet is already 195°C measured with IR.

I have my probe alarm set @ 170°C. Then my surface temps are average 182-185°C.

IR meters are handy to add to confusion.

I have one, just haven’t used it for this yet.

[RydForLyf]

What dies are you using? I can run 2,6,92 alloy sized .357 in a G17 and a G34 all day.
But use a Lee FC die and I get leading within 5 rounds.


As for the Blue. drop your temp and increase the time. Be sure that the heating elements are no closer than 4 inches from your casts. radiant heat will cause green easily.

Dillon crimp die. I checked several sized bullets with both digital caliper and Starrett micrometer. Everything is going through a Star .357 die and measure .358. I pulled a couple apart and they both measured .3575/.358, just a bit eccentric. The coating on the pulled bullets look perfect and they smash fine.

My COWW + Linotype test out to about 14 BNH. The mold is a Lee 356-120-TC, the little brother to the Lee 401-175-TC that I have had such great success with in my G35. I shoot nothing but lead through that G35 stock barrel and never get any leading. Same alloy, same lube, totally different results.

I’ll put my KKM barrel back in the G17 and see if that fares any better.

I’m all ears for anything to help solve this riddle as it has plagued me for a long time.

[RydForLyf]

I have the tru blue. I baked it just as I bake all the other hi tek colors. It came out blue. RydForLyf can you describe your thermometer and thermocouple set up? I am trying to learn how to post photos but so far no luck. I have elements on the top and the bottom.

Agreed photos are a chore. I have to link from photobucket to get them in posts, but my quota is full.

Here goes...

Oster Extra Large Digital Countertop Convection Oven, Stainless Steel (TSSTTVDGXL-SHP)

Popped off the cover and cut all the heating elements free and wired them to 120v plug to go straight to the PID controller. The only reason I plug the oven in now is to run the fan.

For temperature measurement, I got the Auberins.com - K type thermocouple 4" probe, for Smoker, Oven. I’m super lucky that these guys are in Alpharetta, Ga, so I can run over at lunch for pieces and parts. I drilled a hole about 3/4” BELOW my middle rack and bolted it in. I wanted it in the middle of the oven but not in the way of trays. The probe is 4”, so it’s out as far as I can get it. When the oven gets up to temp, the heating elements are cycled on and off, so they’re never glowing red and that should help with excessive radiant heat.

I drill the base of a matching bullet and tap it onto the tip of another k-type thermocouple and plug that into another PID to monitor bullet temp.

I’ll see if I can resurrect my photo bucket account and add some pictures.

[slide]

I would swap out that plain bullet on the thermocouple for a coated one. In one of the above posts Joe mentioned this.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=RydForLyf;4830350]
Here goes...


I wanted it in the middle of the oven but not in the way of trays. The probe is 4”, so it’s out as far as I can get it. When the oven gets up to temp, the heating elements are cycled on and off, so they’re never glowing red and that should help with excessive radiant heat.

RydForLyf
I can see another problem.
Placing the "probe in Lead" away from load of cast, is only measuring air temperature inside oven. You really need to measure the load temperature not oven air temperature. Just because you have an air temperature, this does not automatically tell you correct load temperatures.
Probe in Lead must be on top of load or buried inside that load. That way you will get much closer understanding of loads true temperature. IR thermometer pointed at load, should also be very useful to determine and provide correlation with temperature readings.

[slide]

I went back and reread your post again. You say you tap a bullet onto another k-type thermocouple. I went to the website and saw the ones you are using. Being they are metal wouldn't the exposed metal of the probe be picking up the oven temp. Somebody smarter than me needs to chime in. the thermocouples I use are encased except for the tip which goes in the bullet. This way you are not measuring the air temp just the bullet temp.

[Burnt Fingers]

I'm getting color off with the acetone test with the Tru Blue. But the coating is not coming off the bullet. Smash test is fine.

If NOE ever sends me my expander plugs and sizing bushing I'll get out and shoot some.

[slide]

I remember when the dark blue and dark green came on the scene guys were getting wipeoff. Joe finally figured it out. He had loaded the color heavy in the dark green and blue that you would get wipeoff. It would not cause any problems when shooting. Maybe that is what is going on with the wipeoff guys are seeing.

[Avenger442]

I'll say this, adding extra catalysis to the mix does not help the little color on the wipe test. I started using the coating when it was a two part liquid color and catalysis so I added some of the catalysis part and it didn't stop the color on the wipe.

This color is just a bit ticklish and is going to require some working with and adjustment for me. I never have been the color guru. Glad to hear yours turned out Slide. May have to have you mail me some more Auburn bullets. I did say thank you for the last ones didn't I?

[kevin c]

I went back and reread your post again. You say you tap a bullet onto another k-type thermocouple. I went to the website and saw the ones you are using. Being they are metal wouldn't the exposed metal of the probe be picking up the oven temp. Somebody smarter than me needs to chime in. the thermocouples I use are encased except for the tip which goes in the bullet. This way you are not measuring the air temp just the bullet temp.

I asked that question and Petander, who uses the metal probe in his sensor bullet, replied, saying just the tip reads temp. No personal experience, though.

[slide]

Thanks kevin c. Avenger you did,when you get ready let me know.

[RydForLyf]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4830416]

Here goes...


I wanted it in the middle of the oven but not in the way of trays. The probe is 4”, so it’s out as far as I can get it. When the oven gets up to temp, the heating elements are cycled on and off, so they’re never glowing red and that should help with excessive radiant heat.

RydForLyf
I can see another problem.
Placing the "probe in Lead" away from load of cast, is only measuring air temperature inside oven. You really need to measure the load temperature not oven air temperature. Just because you have an air temperature, this does not automatically tell you correct load temperatures.
Probe in Lead must be on top of load or buried inside that load. That way you will get much closer understanding of loads true temperature. IR thermometer pointed at load, should also be very useful to determine and provide correlation with temperature readings.

Joe,

I have two thermocouples. One is measuring air temp and that is what is used to control air temp in oven. The other is inside a bullet, measuring the temperature of the bullet. I think that is what you are calling load temp. This has been described here as the ATM probe.

I set the oven air temp at 375F and I watch the internal bullet temp to gauge cooking time. All the while, the oven temp remains constant while bullet temp rises as expected towards target 180C.

[RydForLyf]

I asked that question and Petander, who uses the metal probe in his sensor bullet, replied, saying just the tip reads temp. No personal experience, though.

Correct, it’s just the tip. I use the 4” because it has a threaded base so I can mount it through the oven side and fasten it tight. For the bullet probe, it’s 6 or 8” and I just lay it on top of the tray of bullets, so it’s attached bullet is right in the middle of the pile.

[slide]

RydForLyf, how much wipe off are you getting? If it is just a little I wouldn't worry about it. Go back and look at Petander's photos. Depending on the light the tru blu can have a green tint to it. Auburn's blue is the navy blue. Tru blu is not that dark. As far as your problems with the 9mm I don't have one but have heard they can be tough.

[RydForLyf]

RydForLyf, how much wipe off are you getting? If it is just a little I wouldn't worry about it. Go back and look at Petander's photos. Depending on the light the tru blu can have a green tint to it. Auburn's blue is the navy blue. Tru blu is not that dark. As far as your problems with the 9mm I don't have one but have heard they can be tough.

In all honesty, the color is the least of my problems. If I can’t get them to shoot without leading, it doesn’t matter what color they are. I just ordered another mold today, maybe more driving band will help. I’ll also try a softer alloy hoping for a better seal in the bore.

I shot about 200 through my G35 today and the results were much better. Same alloy, same everything. Even using a Lee FCD on the .40. The 9 is just a mystery.

[Ausglock]

Don't go softer alloy!!!! 9mm loves hard alloy...soft will lead worse..
2,6,92 alloy is 15 to 16 BHN. all our 9mm bullets are made with it.