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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #13021
    Boolit Master




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    [QUOTE=RydForLyf;4830350]
    Here goes...


    I wanted it in the middle of the oven but not in the way of trays. The probe is 4”, so it’s out as far as I can get it. When the oven gets up to temp, the heating elements are cycled on and off, so they’re never glowing red and that should help with excessive radiant heat.

    RydForLyf
    I can see another problem.
    Placing the "probe in Lead" away from load of cast, is only measuring air temperature inside oven. You really need to measure the load temperature not oven air temperature. Just because you have an air temperature, this does not automatically tell you correct load temperatures.
    Probe in Lead must be on top of load or buried inside that load. That way you will get much closer understanding of loads true temperature. IR thermometer pointed at load, should also be very useful to determine and provide correlation with temperature readings.

  2. #13022
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    I went back and reread your post again. You say you tap a bullet onto another k-type thermocouple. I went to the website and saw the ones you are using. Being they are metal wouldn't the exposed metal of the probe be picking up the oven temp. Somebody smarter than me needs to chime in. the thermocouples I use are encased except for the tip which goes in the bullet. This way you are not measuring the air temp just the bullet temp.
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  3. #13023
    Boolit Master Burnt Fingers's Avatar
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    I'm getting color off with the acetone test with the Tru Blue. But the coating is not coming off the bullet. Smash test is fine.

    If NOE ever sends me my expander plugs and sizing bushing I'll get out and shoot some.
    NRA Benefactor.

  4. #13024
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    I remember when the dark blue and dark green came on the scene guys were getting wipeoff. Joe finally figured it out. He had loaded the color heavy in the dark green and blue that you would get wipeoff. It would not cause any problems when shooting. Maybe that is what is going on with the wipeoff guys are seeing.
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  5. #13025
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    I'll say this, adding extra catalysis to the mix does not help the little color on the wipe test. I started using the coating when it was a two part liquid color and catalysis so I added some of the catalysis part and it didn't stop the color on the wipe.

    This color is just a bit ticklish and is going to require some working with and adjustment for me. I never have been the color guru. Glad to hear yours turned out Slide. May have to have you mail me some more Auburn bullets. I did say thank you for the last ones didn't I?
    Last edited by Avenger442; 02-16-2020 at 03:33 PM.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  6. #13026
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    I went back and reread your post again. You say you tap a bullet onto another k-type thermocouple. I went to the website and saw the ones you are using. Being they are metal wouldn't the exposed metal of the probe be picking up the oven temp. Somebody smarter than me needs to chime in. the thermocouples I use are encased except for the tip which goes in the bullet. This way you are not measuring the air temp just the bullet temp.
    I asked that question and Petander, who uses the metal probe in his sensor bullet, replied, saying just the tip reads temp. No personal experience, though.

  7. #13027
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    Thanks kevin c. Avenger you did,when you get ready let me know.
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  8. #13028
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    [QUOTE=HI-TEK;4830416]
    Quote Originally Posted by RydForLyf View Post
    Here goes...


    I wanted it in the middle of the oven but not in the way of trays. The probe is 4”, so it’s out as far as I can get it. When the oven gets up to temp, the heating elements are cycled on and off, so they’re never glowing red and that should help with excessive radiant heat.

    RydForLyf
    I can see another problem.
    Placing the "probe in Lead" away from load of cast, is only measuring air temperature inside oven. You really need to measure the load temperature not oven air temperature. Just because you have an air temperature, this does not automatically tell you correct load temperatures.
    Probe in Lead must be on top of load or buried inside that load. That way you will get much closer understanding of loads true temperature. IR thermometer pointed at load, should also be very useful to determine and provide correlation with temperature readings.
    Joe,

    I have two thermocouples. One is measuring air temp and that is what is used to control air temp in oven. The other is inside a bullet, measuring the temperature of the bullet. I think that is what you are calling load temp. This has been described here as the ATM probe.

    I set the oven air temp at 375F and I watch the internal bullet temp to gauge cooking time. All the while, the oven temp remains constant while bullet temp rises as expected towards target 180C.

  9. #13029
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin c View Post
    I asked that question and Petander, who uses the metal probe in his sensor bullet, replied, saying just the tip reads temp. No personal experience, though.
    Correct, it’s just the tip. I use the 4” because it has a threaded base so I can mount it through the oven side and fasten it tight. For the bullet probe, it’s 6 or 8” and I just lay it on top of the tray of bullets, so it’s attached bullet is right in the middle of the pile.

  10. #13030
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    RydForLyf, how much wipe off are you getting? If it is just a little I wouldn't worry about it. Go back and look at Petander's photos. Depending on the light the tru blu can have a green tint to it. Auburn's blue is the navy blue. Tru blu is not that dark. As far as your problems with the 9mm I don't have one but have heard they can be tough.
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  11. #13031
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    RydForLyf, how much wipe off are you getting? If it is just a little I wouldn't worry about it. Go back and look at Petander's photos. Depending on the light the tru blu can have a green tint to it. Auburn's blue is the navy blue. Tru blu is not that dark. As far as your problems with the 9mm I don't have one but have heard they can be tough.
    In all honesty, the color is the least of my problems. If I can’t get them to shoot without leading, it doesn’t matter what color they are. I just ordered another mold today, maybe more driving band will help. I’ll also try a softer alloy hoping for a better seal in the bore.

    I shot about 200 through my G35 today and the results were much better. Same alloy, same everything. Even using a Lee FCD on the .40. The 9 is just a mystery.

  12. #13032
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    Don't go softer alloy!!!! 9mm loves hard alloy...soft will lead worse..
    2,6,92 alloy is 15 to 16 BHN. all our 9mm bullets are made with it.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  13. #13033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    I'd like to report something interesting:

    I cast a bunch of 615 grain 50 cal bullets and was kinda hurrying up to get them done. So I didn't weigh them but did the math in my head... wrong.

    I used 8 ml of coating for 5 lbs of bullets,three times. I noticed they were swimming... but I went on,coatings were good looking... I found out the real weight the day after. My coating was a mix again, 2 ml Tru Blu, 6ml TMG Gold Original. I like these greens I'm getting.

    The thing is,smash and wipe and scratch and bite and whatever test I do, this coating has bonded perfectly and is just thicker than usual. Approx. 002". Looks good,elastic,glossy,as you can see. Tough coating.



    I sized and loaded some today, 1100 fps, almost 50 k psi, working fine and clean.



    My first coat was absolutely too thick. No problems whatsoever with this mistake.
    Petander. They look great.

  14. #13034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Don't go softer alloy!!!! 9mm loves hard alloy...soft will lead worse..
    2,6,92 alloy is 15 to 16 BHN. all our 9mm bullets are made with it.
    Roger that. I’ll look for some known alloy to try. Thanks.

  15. #13035
    Boolit Master slide's Avatar
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    RydForLyf, I'm sure you are aware of rotometals. You can buy some known alloy there.
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  16. #13036
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    RydForLyf, I'm sure you are aware of rotometals. You can buy some known alloy there.
    Look at Missouri bullet they sell hardball alloy at a price that it’s almost not worth messing with scrap metal (under2.50a pound) and when I had leading issues I got some to eliminate the mystery alloy I was using from the equation (the coating was already proven).

  17. #13037
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    I melted and fluxed a 50 lbs "pure lead" bar.

    Not much to flux,alloy looked good. I cast some chrome shiny RB:s while coating other boolits, then put RB:s in Acid Test... "BAM!".



    It really is a good practise to test all alloys before coating,no matter how " pure" someone tells you. This coating would have failed in a mysterious,unpredictable way.

    Now I just clean them up,add a drop of Hydroden Peroxide to speed up the impurity cleaning. Rinse. Done. Will coat great.

  18. #13038
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide View Post
    RydForLyf, I'm sure you are aware of rotometals. You can buy some known alloy there.
    Yes I am, but they're a long way away from Georgia. I need to see if I can find someone closer to me.

  19. #13039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papercidal View Post
    Look at Missouri bullet they sell hardball alloy at a price that it’s almost not worth messing with scrap metal (under2.50a pound) and when I had leading issues I got some to eliminate the mystery alloy I was using from the equation (the coating was already proven).
    Thanks, I will give that a try.

  20. #13040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    I melted and fluxed a 50 lbs "pure lead" bar.

    Not much to flux,alloy looked good. I cast some chrome shiny RB:s while coating other boolits, then put RB:s in Acid Test... "BAM!".



    It really is a good practise to test all alloys before coating,no matter how " pure" someone tells you. This coating would have failed in a mysterious,unpredictable way.

    Now I just clean them up,add a drop of Hydroden Peroxide to speed up the impurity cleaning. Rinse. Done. Will coat great.
    This is one thing I'm not sure on. My 80% COWW 20% Lino pours shiny, not frosty. I keep my casting pot @660F and cool the mold off on a damp towel instead of timing. I haven't tested mold temp with IR, but may do that.

    Regardless of temps and appearance, I can smash the heck out of my HI-TEK coated bullets and it works great. Nothing has ever flaked off or split or done anything other than deform to the new shape. Even though the smash test passed, is there a chance I have a bonding issue? Maybe I need to recover some to see how much coating is left.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check