Kinda Pointless Information on the Krag-Jorgensen Rifle

[Kansas Ed]

I was watching Hogans Heros last night, and spotted Klink carrying a side box magazine rifle....not knowing any rifle that had that magazine other than the Krag, I did a little looking online. I was surprised to find out that the Krag-Jorgensen plant Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk was pressed into service by Nazi Germany to produce the Krags for WWII. Something I did not know. But curiosity demands...were there any other rifles with that type of side magazine utilized in the military other than Krag designs?

Ed

[NickSS]

I do not know of any. The Krags of Hogans Heros are US Krags but the Germans used many rifles from contries that they over ran. A lot of them were used by police and prison guards etc to free up standard rifles for the battle front.

[Multigunner]

Krags were pretty much the standard bolt action prop rifle in the old movies. Many WW2 era films use the Krag to stand in for the Arisaka and pre WW2 films used the Krag as a stand in for the Lee Metford.

With John Banners size, at 280 pounds , not sure of his height but he was also a fairly tall man, the 98K would not have looked suitable to his size.
If I'm not mistaken Banner also carried a Krag in the film "36 hours" where he played a German home guard border patrolman, a character much like Schultz though not a comedy role.

Closest thing to the Krag magazine would have been the spindle magazine of some mannlicher rifles. the Mannlicher spindle going full circle while the Krag curved in a C with hinged follower.
There were a few uncommon rifle designs that had exposed metal at the sides for one reason or another, but not like the Krag side opening box.

PS
The rotary drum mag of the Johnson Autoloading rifle has some similarities to the Krag.

[3006guns]

If you want to see a lot of odd rifles, just watch a few of the "Buy War Bonds" movies of the early forties. You know, the ones that show the Japanese and Germans as evil blithering idiots, always outwitted by the stalwart American home town hero (absolutely no offense intended, but they WERE pretty corny even from a propaganda standpoint).

It always amazed me how the enemy seemed to own legions of Browning water cooled machine guns and Krag rifles. In some of the movies they did a good job of somewhat "hiding" the weapon to an extent that made it hard to identify. A director with a conscience I guess..........

[1500FPS]

Shucks I even saw an old movie about a submarine crew in WWII and they sent a landing party ashore for some kind of covert activity. Some of they were armed with Model 94 Winchesters!!

[junkbug]

John Banner, who played Schultz, was an Austrian Jew who had to flee his homeland for his life, as a young adult. He refused to carry a german rifle as movie prop, thus the US Krag was used.

[Multigunner]

Shucks I even saw an old movie about a submarine crew in WWII and they sent a landing party ashore for some kind of covert activity. Some of they were armed with Model 94 Winchesters!!

I remember that film. Use of a commonly available civilian weapon may have been correct for a covert landing of observers.
If there was a firefight with shore patrols or civilian witnesses were eliminated they'd want any shell casings or abandoned rifles to be civilian rather than identifiable as USN issue. Even a .30 carbine casing found after a fight would alert the Japanese that a Sub was in the area.

One things for sure, they did not make pointed FMJ bullets for the .30-30 leveraction.

[Nickle]

In the movie "Patton", seems I remember the desert scene where the "Americans" used M47 tanks, and the "Germans" were using M48 tanks. Seeing both those models were American, it's funny. But, I do see trouble finding Panzer Mk II tanks.

Worst one I ever saw was a "WW2" flick that had the good guys using M113 APC's. Saw some with M16's. Both about 20 years too early.

[Multigunner]

In the movie "Patton", seems I remember the desert scene where the "Americans" used M47 tanks, and the "Germans" were using M48 tanks. Seeing both those models were American, it's funny. But, I do see trouble finding Panzer Mk II tanks.

There were few WW2 era German tanks still in running condition, those you see in films these days are mock ups built on obsolete post WW2 tanks that have similar suspension systems.
They take the surplus tanks and cut off most of the upper hull above the treads, then build the mockup deck and turret on that.

One of the more accurate WW2 films is "Guadalcanal Diary". You'll see mainly Springfield 03 rifles and both Thompson and Reising SMGs.

One old film, I forget which had an odd looking lash up. It was a Japanese crew using a 1928 Thompson as a light machine gun on a pintle mount. I later found that the Japanese had done just that with captured Thompsons.

[Nickle]

There were few WW2 era German tanks still in running condition, those you see in films these days are mock ups built on obsolete post WW2 tanks that have similar suspension systems.
They take the surplus tanks and cut off most of the upper hull above the treads, then build the mockup deck and turret on that.

Actually, those tanks in that movie weren't tweaked all that much. Of course, you also have to understand I've worked on M48A5, M60A3 and M1 tanks for a living, and we had an M47 "lawn ornament" on the way to the shop, as well as an M42 Duster. So, I'm pretty familiar with what I was looking at.

They did change the peripheral equipment on them some, and I can imagine they did "hodge podge" them as needed. Can't say as I blame them.

[Multigunner]

Actually, those tanks in that movie weren't tweaked all that much. Of course, you also have to understand I've worked on M48A5, M60A3 and M1 tanks for a living, and we had an M47 "lawn ornament" on the way to the shop, as well as an M42 Duster. So, I'm pretty familiar with what I was looking at.

They did change the peripheral equipment on them some, and I can imagine they did "hodge podge" them as needed. Can't say as I blame them.

Yeah "Patton" is a fairly old film. I was speaking of more recent films.
IIRC they borrowed the tanks from the military of the country they filmed in, and of course they could not radically alter them since the tanks would be returned when the filming ended.

Here's a site with articles and links to info on motion picture prop armored vehicles.
http://filmpanzer.squarespace.com/

[Nickle]

The film was done in Spain, IIRC. And I've read they did borrow the tanks.

[Multigunner]

The film was done in Spain, IIRC. And I've read they did borrow the tanks.

I was thinking it was Spanish Tunisia. I think they filmed the Rat Patrol TV series there as well.

Which reminds me. In a few WW2 type films I've seen them use the Port Said SMG as a stand in for the MP40.
That SMG is a clone of the MP40 but has a ventilated barrel jacket.

[Nickle]

You're probably right. I heard Spain, but that only meant the Spanish government was involved. Sure makes more sense your way. Looks more likely, if nothing else.

[Multigunner]

Looks like I was wrong about Tunisia.
A lot of the filming did take place in Spain , desert scenes were filmed in Morocco and Algeria as well as in desert in Almera Spain.
Tunisia borders on Algeria, could be they filmed some scenes there as well.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066206/locations

Turns out the early episodes of The Rat Patrol were also filmed in Almera Spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almer%C3%ADa

That region looks much like Egypt and has many medieval Moorish buildings and fortifications still standing

Many of the battles took place in Tunisia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisia_Campaign

So rather than being filmed in Tunisia, they used deserts in other countries as stand ins.

Spain once controlled Tunisia but were kicked out centuries ago.
There may be a region still refered to as Spanish Tunisia.

[1500FPS]

and then there are the German tanks on Saving Private Ryan. From what I've read mocked up Russian T34's and/or T34-T85

[DanM]

The Spanish Partizans in "For Whom The Bell Tolls" were all armed with Krags. Some of the Government troops were too.

[madsenshooter]

In some of the early episodes of McHale's Navy the Japanese were armed with US Krags. MGM was rumored to have one of the few surviving specimens of the 1896 Cadet rifles. Wonder what happened to it?

[MT Chambers]

So McHales Navy and Hogans heroes are the "go to" shows for accurate historical info on allied and axis small arms?

[Ed in North Texas]

The Spanish Partizans in "For Whom The Bell Tolls" were all armed with Krags. Some of the Government troops were too.

Aside from "Partizan" being a term used by and for Tito's Yugoslav force (and still extant today in the name Prvi Partizan), the two sides in the Spanish Civil War were the "Republicans" (the government) and the "Nationalists" led by Franco.