HFPC Boolits..Piglet Method

[Capt Mike]

I'm using Lacquer thinner, and yes it will make you high....but WHAT a headache! I have done three batches over the last two days using HP powder and they all will discolor/partially wipe off with a paper towel when wet with lacquer thinner. My cheep HF digital thermometer reads spot on 400 degrees F. when aimed at the red boolets. I'll have to use another oven to get higher temps.

[Capt Mike]

Opps duplicate post!

[prickett]

I have read this entire thread and many other threads on this and other forums pertaining to powder coating. I would like something clarified for me. As I see it there are three basic methods at this time for powder coating projectiles.

1. The "Piglet" method where one uses a powder mixed with acetone or lacquer thinner. The projectiles are dumped into a container and agitated in the powder/liquid mixture until coated and then placed on a screen tray to dry and heat. There are a couple of variations of this, but all use thinner of some sort with powder sprinkled or added, then heated.

2. Next is the Hi-Tech method where you purchase a kit containing a premixed liquid pigment and a catalyst. Once mixed, this method is the same as the "Piglet" method.

3. Last is the regular powder coating method where one used a powder coat gun and induces the powder to adhere to the projectile by use of electricity. One again, the projectile must be heated.

Now am I missing something or does this pretty much cover it? I know there are those that use liquid paints of all sorts and other chemicals and coatings, but to keep this simple does this sum it up for us here in the US trying to powder coat boolets?

There is a 4th method: Epoxy paint such as Klass Kote. Similar to the Hi-Tek method.

[seedeeze]

There is a 4th method: Epoxy paint such as Klass Kote. Similar to the Hi-Tek method.

Does the epoxy paint really need to cure in an oven? I thought epoxy paints cures by themselves at room temperature, is the oven curing used just to reduce curing time?

[Capt Mike]

I was lumping all the 2 part or epoxy based type under the Hi-tek. I am not, however, familiar with anything but the Hi-Tek and then only thru reading. I plan to order a kit so I can try it, but first I feel I should master, as best I can, the "Piglet" method, then maybe spraying dry powder.

[HI-TEK]

I'm using Lacquer thinner, and yes it will make you high....but WHAT a headache! I have done three batches over the last two days using HP powder and they all will discolor/partially wipe off with a paper towel when wet with lacquer thinner. My cheep HF digital thermometer reads spot on 400 degrees F. when aimed at the red boolets. I'll have to use another oven to get higher temps.

If you are coating with Powder coating, dissolved in solvent method, there are several things that need to be considered.
Powder coating, already contains every thing required to cure at 190-200C.
The catalyst that is contained in powder system, works at elevated temperatures to set the coatings.
The problems that can occur, with various resin systems not being totally soluble in your chosen solvent.
You have no way to determine just how much, and to what extent, all required materials had dissolved, and in the correct ratio, to provide the setting required at cure temperatures.
The composition of various powder resin systems have different properties and react differently when trying to dissolve them.
To test your coating system, I can suggest a couple of things to try.
1. place some powder onto a piece of metal, (steel will do) and bake at 200C for required time.
2. place some of solvent dissolved powder extract coating on similar surface, and repeat process after thorough drying.
Then compare the two cured coatings to determine how things went.
If both set same way and is OK then the solvent system is working.
If you find that solvent extract system does not set same way, it can indicate that not every thing dissolved as required to set coating properly.

[jcobb651]

When using acetone or lacquer thinner, is it possible that some of the solvent hasn't flashed completely off before being heat treated, thereby causing the erratic results?

[passgas55]

The ones I coated do rub off some when soaked in acetone. I took another sample of bullets and i am rebaking them right now
at 450f for 20 minutes. i will try soaking them again to see what happens. At least now I can clean any powder coat residue in my barrel
with acetone(joke). But does it really matter? What effects does it have on a boolit being shot?

[HI-TEK]

The ones I coated do rub off some when soaked in acetone. I took another sample of bullets and i am rebaking them right now
at 450f for 20 minutes. i will try soaking them again to see what happens. At least now I can clean any powder coat residue in my barrel
with acetone(joke). But does it really matter? What effects does it have on a boolit being shot?

When shooting any coated alloys, the heat produced due to powder burn and friction heat, will certainly affect what happens with the coating.
If coating is not cured properly, or has a low melt temperature when comparing to powder burn or frictional heat temperatures, the coatings that come off the alloy and deposit inside barrel will set very hard and may bond to steel surfaces. Solvents will not remove such deposits as heat will set coating well and is no longer soluble in solvents.

[passgas55]

Ok this is what I came out with. I am not baking the boolits hot/long enough.
I did it for the above 450f/20minutes and did an acetone soak after and no residue on my towel wipe down.
Another thing I notice the boolit with the most black in it (the grey ones) came out a little more flat in finish as compared before.
I will rebacke the 200+ boolits but I gues I will have to shoot the 150+ rounds that I already have loaded. Well at least I can compare
how the acetone effected boolits hold up to being fired.i will test in my ss rugar sa gun. It will be the easiest to clean up if i have any problems unless the boolits will rebake themselves when shot. i hope not. Edit to see what you posted about it rebking so off to the bullet puller I go.

[Skip62]

Does the epoxy paint really need to cure in an oven? I thought epoxy paints cures by themselves at room temperature, is the oven curing used just to reduce curing time?

I don't know about all epoxy paints, but Klass Kote does not, it just speeds the re-coat time a little bit.

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[passgas55]

Those fully loaded rounds i have were made a little diffrent in that they were coated twice lightly and backed twice.
I will test with acetone the tips to see if they pass or not. If they pass I will shoot. If not I will pull.

[bigfelipe]

So I see lots of pretty bullets in this thread, but not much on accuracy and function. How are these boolits working out or you guys? Are your groups tight? Barrels clean?

[Capt Mike]

So it looks like maybe I need to increase the temps to around 450F for 20 minutes or so? I think I am going to have to install the old kitchen oven I took out and replaced a couple of months ago. I knew if I kept it I would have a use for it!

While we are at it, what are people doing to keep the boolets nice and smooth after they come out of the mixture? All that rolling around on the hardware cloth makes them rough no matter what I do.

[TES]

Free at a yard sale!

Score!!!!

I asked about it and she said it didn't work. So being a gentleman I asked if she tried another plug just to be sure and she said "yes I did. It's broken you can have it for free."

Got it home and cooked pizza at 450 deg in 15 minutes from frozen.

Now it goes in the garage...maybe.

[Skip62]

Nice score Tess

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[prickett]

So I see lots of pretty bullets in this thread, but not much on accuracy and function. How are these boolits working out or you guys? Are your groups tight? Barrels clean?

I tested Piglet Coat vs. traditional wax lubed lead and found accuracy to be slightly better with Piglet.

The first time I shot Piglet, the barrel was spotless. The last time left something in the barrel that I'm trying to determine the makeup of (lead? or paint?)

[dverna]

So I see lots of pretty bullets in this thread, but not much on accuracy and function. How are these boolits working out or you guys? Are your groups tight? Barrels clean?

For some of us, that is the $64k question. Accuracy.

My impression is that well over 90% of the work is being done on pistol bullets. Many pistol shooters are not skilled enough to discern a slight change in accuracy unless they go to the effort to bench test loads. Minute of pie plate at 50 yards is good enough. What is more important is reducing or eliminating leading and a process that is relatively fast for those who do not have a Star and are not willing to make the investment. Hy-Tek is not capital intensive and is an attractive alternative.

The lack of accuracy testing is telling but it is not uncommon unless you have people working with rifle loads. That is where the rubber meets the road. I think that with all the hype, we will see more people trying it, and some will be rifle shooters. Then we will see more reports on rifle loads and accuracy. That is what I am waiting for.

Now, if I had a pistol that would not run lead with traditional lubes, I would be ordering Hy-Tek - as I think it is better than either PC or piglet coating methods.

[bigfelipe]

I actually have a liter of red copper Hi-Tek that just came in, but I also have a couple containers of HF PC in black and yellow I would love to use up too. I just don't see the point if accuracy isn't there.

[passgas55]

I did another test batch today. I had some slow dry, high gloss paint thinner and it did work real good. It took care of mixing in the red.
The only problem with it is if you add too much thinner it sure takes a long time for it to get thicker. I ended up adding more powder which made the coating too thick. But I can see this is the way to go instead of using acetone. The sizer took care of the extra thickness but it left bare spots. The baked finish was the smoothest I had ever done. I baked at 450f for 30 minuetes. Passed the wipe down test with acetone and paint thinner. My next batch should be a little thinner on the coating. Tomorrow I hope to shoot a few of the rebaked boolits. I think I am on my way.