WARNING- High Soap Lubes= Hydroscopic Lube

[runfiverun]

Robert this isn't personal really.
it is just a bunch of guy's with strong feelings that are actually working towards the same goal.
believe it or not.

there are much worse things than soap in a lube.
alox is one of them by far, yet it is sung from the heavens.
it's a soap too b.t.w.

[Marlin Junky]

Isn't there enough soap already contained in the Lithium or Lithium complex greases one can readily purchase at auto parts stores and/or Wally World? Personally, I don't care for sodium... nor do the grease manufactures since they discovered superior substitutes.

MJ

[badgeredd]

I'm having trouble understanding why the following has upset anyone who is truly interested in making a extremely all purpose lube.

357maximum said: "Last Wed/Thur Mid Michigan was "treated" to 85-90 degree temps with ultra high humidity.
I had all my high soap lubes out in the open on my casting bench getting ready to make a homogenized batch of soapy mutt lube out of all the old test candidates/failures and such. Every single lube that was made with 9% or more Ivory soap in the lube recipe had a patchy/whitish coating of what could be best described as slime that extended about 1/8 inch into the lube blocks. It was kinda like petting a wet toad when I touched the lube blocks. Ivory soap is not as corrosive as say Dawn dishsoap, but it is still a base that is slightly caustic according to some. I can only imagine what the soapy lube residue from high soap lubes would do to a rifle bore in such hot/moist conditions.....It could be ugly if kept unchecked and who here among us wants to treat their cast boolit launchers like a muzzleloader?"

If one reads the entirety and understands it, it would seem they would understand 357maximum's concern. My impression is we are here working separately for a lofty goal and when one comes upon a bad characteristic in a lube, he has a responsibility to report his findings. If one has a cure or explanation for said fault then by all means say so. I see no reason for the peeing match or the gang mentality.

Edd

[randyrat]

it's full of a stearate similar to sodium stearate.
but then again alox is too.
and so is lithi-bee.
lithium grease contains water as an ingredient.
anhydrous lanolin contains water as an ingredient.
b-wax can be corrosive.
waterproof marine grease contains water [3% average] as an ingredient.

{ anhydrous}= Lack of water, no water added
{Hydrous}= water added
I sell it and I don't want anyone to be confused to think I add water to my Lanolin

[oneokie]

Gentlemen, there appears to be 2 camps in these ongoing lube debates. Each camp is in entirely different climatic conditions. What works in one most likely will not work in the other.

What little I know about lubes can be summed up with this: there is no perfect lube that will work for all conditions. Same as load information for what ever caliber one is using.

There are too many variables, as we all know.

There are also leaders who push the envelope to find the best lube for their shooting conditons, and there are camp followers. Each camp has both. The membership here can learn from each camp.

Try and keep things civil. Some of the recent posts are border line baiting.

[MT Chambers]

Okay, to summarize(I haven't read all the posts)
1. Bullet lubes are surprisingly contentious issues
2. Some lubes only work in Michigan
3. Don't drop the soap in the shower

[btroj]

Oh, I don't think they are borderline.

What we actually want is a lube that works as well at low temps as it does at high temps. Nothing else.

If the final recipe has soap or not isn't of concern to ANY of the "3 amigos" or theirs friends. We are after a RESULT, not a recipe.

So far we have had some excellent results with the high soap lubes. They are working far better than anything with a wax base. Due to summer temps the cold end testing will need to wait for winter. We do have one guy doing some cooler weather testing and it seems promising.

None of the future results will be posted here in all likelihood. The trolling and baiting has gotten old. We were merely trying to have an open sharing of ideas. That appears to ruffle some feather so the best we could do was go underground.

Those who are the issue know who they are. We meant no harm or insult to the board or anyone else. We have simply come to a point where the nasty comments and harassment have become intolerable.

If anyone has a desire to know what we are doing currently then simply ask via PM.

I speak solely for myself. The others involved may or may not agree with me. I do not speak for the others.

[doctorggg]

It is a real shame when people like me who have read every post in the extreme lube quest get left out of future info. Knowledge can certainly be gained from you gentlemen that know what you are doing. Whether it's a success or failure is knowledge. It's a shame a "few" cause everyone else to loose. Yet that seems to be the way the US works now. The minority wins and the majority looses. Just my .02

[Marlin Junky]

Gentlemen, there appears to be 2 camps in these ongoing lube debates. Each camp is in entirely different climatic conditions. What works in one most likely will not work in the other.

Is that a fact... just where are the boundaries? I get a couple weeks of humid weather in northeast WY during the thunderstorm season and also in the So. CA desert during late September. I wouldn't want a hydroscopic lube coating my "priceless" barrel during these climatic conditions which occur at slightly different times of the year, approx 1200 miles apart.

What little I know about lubes can be summed up with this: there is no perfect lube that will work for all conditions...

NOOOOOOO! Say it isn't so!

MJ

[btroj]

Then don't use it MJ. Pretty simple, isn't it?

[1500FPS]

I'm an outsider here that does not have a dog in this fight/argument. I know that I have recently signed up, but don't think for one minute I haven't been following the topics at Castboolits for quite some time.

I see three camp and the third being the Moderators. I have seen no swearing and no derogatory name calling and yet the moderators are here hanging the cloud of doom over the thread as so often happens in many other threads. Has Castboolits gotten to the point where you cannot even argue? What is next not allowed to debate?

A remark was made about no perfect lube has been found. From reading the lengthy Extreme Lube thread there appears there has been one found. Maybe many of you missed it.

As an outside observer what I see is that Michigan member is not happy that his lube isn't at the top of the heap. I see nowhere in the lube discussions with the "other camp" that he was there to help. He was there to disrupt and what some took as helping was a ruse. The corrosive effects of high soap lubes being the latest. There are many in high humidity areas using various forms of soap lubes with no corrosion or rusting of luber/sizers, sizing dies, or anything involved with it.
Gee whiz, Ivory use to advertise "gentle enough for a baby's skin". I know that's not our rifle bores, but the stuff is pretty safe. Many think because soap is made with a caustic substance, lye, that soap has to be caustic. The saphonation of soap, if done correctly uses up the caustic action of the lye. There have been soap based greases for scores years. Many of the marine greases are soap based and you cannot get more humid then that. Those of you that live in the states where roads are heavily salted (where don't they anymore?) there were automotive businesses dedicated to rust proofing your car. One notable one was Ziebart. Their slogan use to be "It's Rust or Us". That material they used is very closely related to Alox which is soap based. A good many of those states are in very humid areas.

Please don't close the threads that are just passionate discussions.

[Marlin Junky]

I thought "Apache Blue" was one of the first lubes to use soap as a main component. If I remember correctly it was some where around, if not over, 30%. I think Kelly started it, passed it onto Veral and LBT became a variant.

So if people have been using LBT as their lube you are saying they should stop due to the fact it will ruin their firearms?

All soaps are not equal regarding their affinity toward moisture absorption; i.e, sodium soap (e.g. Ivory) is more hydroscopic than Lithium soap. Do you know what soap Paco Kelly and/or Veral Smith used/uses in their blue formulae?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Then don't use it MJ. Pretty simple, isn't it?

Don't plan it. What gives? Is my opinion not worthy?

MJ

[runfiverun]

first off.
Randy sells anhydrous lanolin.
I have a pile of it and use it a LOT.
my point was there is water content in lanolin it comes naturally and is not added.

part of the process in making high soap lubes is to drive out the water content.
it's done at 450-f or higher temps.
one of the ingredients in ivory soap is water it doesn't come out of the package all slimy but it is in there.
follow the cooking directions.
use it or don't..... whatever, whichever...whatever.

[btroj]

It is worthy. If you choose to not use a lube then don't use it.

I don't really care what you use. What I do care about is trolling and baiting when we are trying to develop a new lube and share info with others.

I happen to know of a person who has tested Na based lubes like this in wet conditions. After weeks of daily wetting and leaving them in a humid environment there is ZERO issue with corrosion of polished steel.

The jury is still out, isn't it?

[Marlin Junky]

I see three camp and the third being the Moderators. I have seen no swearing and no derogatory name calling and yet the moderators are here hanging the cloud of doom over the thread as so often happens in many other threads. Has Castboolits gotten to the point where you cannot even argue? What is next not allowed to debate?

Agree.

A remark was made about no perfect lube has been found. From reading the lengthy Extreme Lube thread there appears there has been one found. Maybe many of you missed it.

Extreme is in the mind of the shooter... test away.

As an outside observer what I see is that Michigan member is not happy that his lube isn't at the top of the heap.

Strongly Disagree.

I see nowhere in the lube discussions with the "other camp" that he was there to help. He was there to disrupt and what some took as helping was a ruse. The corrosive effects of high soap lubes being the latest. There are many in high humidity areas using various forms of soap lubes with no corrosion or rusting of luber/sizers, sizing dies, or anything involved with it.
Gee whiz, Ivory use to advertise "gentle enough for a baby's skin". I know that's not our rifle bores, but the stuff is pretty safe. Many think because soap is made with a caustic substance, lye, that soap has to be caustic. The saphonation of soap, if done correctly uses up the caustic action of the lye. There have been soap based greases for scores years. Many of the marine greases are soap based and you cannot get more humid then that. Those of you that live in the states where roads are heavily salted (where don't they anymore?) there were automotive businesses dedicated to rust proofing your car. One notable one was Ziebart. Their slogan use to be "It's Rust or Us". That material they used is very closely related to Alox which is soap based. A good many of those states are in very humid areas.

It's not about the caustic attribute of NaOH... it's about the affinity sodium soap has for moisture.

MJ

[runfiverun]

Don yeah we pretty much know what's in lbt blue.
we ain't discussing or divulging what's in it, or any other commercial lube.
PeRIOD.
this was already made crystal clear the last time it was brought up.

[357maximum]

Ya got me there 1500FPS....I served this board for several years as a moderator, and I entered the cure all end all lube thread just to cause trouble.....damn I have been found out.

I tried to help, my help was not wanted...pure and simple and now I can rest at ease knowing that I tried and it was not a good enough effort...oh well. I guess I will just go and follow some other members lead and simply fade into the darkness....I am not wanted here.....and I know when to say **** it and carry on.

[Marlin Junky]

...What I do care about is trolling and baiting when we are trying to develop a new lube and share info with others.

Actually, this is thread was started by Mike regarding his observation which I thought was interesting enough to add my comment about over-the-counter greases. If you are insinuating that I am trolling or baiting then there's no point in continuing this conversation.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Don yeah we pretty much know what's in lbt blue.
we ain't discussing or divulging what's in it, or any other commercial lube.
PeRIOD.
this was already made crystal clear the last time it was brought up.

It's not going to hurt anyone's sales to divulge if there's sodium in it or not.

MJ