Oregon Trail Cast Bullets

[dtknowles]

My issue with the article was all the tests with what I consider moderate velocities. A hard bullet with a gas check seems to me like the wrong approach for those pistols. Get rid of the gas check use a alloy with a BHN of 13 to 16 and reduce the price but I guess they also make bullets like that and the gas check and sweeteners for the alloy don't cost them as much as they would cost me.

Tim

[EDG]

I think the percent silver is probably more like .02 of a percent. There is silver in it but maybe only enough to keep the alloy bright.
Handloader has degenerated some with the current editor and I do not expect it to improve until Scovill leaves.
It seems to be the fad for magazine writers to denigrate the INTERNET or even claim they do not use it. It is all a bias against a media that competes with their livelihoods in the writing world. Those writers may feel they are big shots at the magazine outfits but the truth is some of us have seniority over them. I was subscribing to Handloader when most of them had never heard of the magazine.

[MT Chambers]

Those bullets are nothing that anyone can't do, use lino and tin, get a couple of LBT molds (or Accurate), and have at 'er, must have been a slow day at the magazine.

[MTtimberline]

Mileage may vary..yes, Bob Munden uses them and seems to do pretty well with them. Surprising to me is as hard a bullet as they are he only pushes them around 750fps and is sorta accurate with them..IIRC Mr. Munden stated on one of his "shows" that his load was 7.4gr. of Unique with the 250gr. Lazer Cast bullet...I've shot em', they were fine, but that was when you could buy 500 for 30 bucks....I don't shoot them anymore.

I believe that Bob Munden also doesn't shoot them anymore.

[bikerbeans]

Several years ago, before I started casting, I bought about 600 of the Oregon Trail 44cal 310g WNGC bullets. I found them on GB for about 1/3 of list price so I figured why not? I have only shot these bullets in rifles and have had very fine accuracy with them. I have one single shot rifle that a friend and I wildcatted to what we call the 44 Bodeen. This is essentially a 444 Marlin lengthened about 0.7 inch, approx. 91 grains of water capacity. With the 44 Bodeen, I have shot these 44 cal bullets in excess of 2,300 fps while maintaining accuracy. I have a friend who owns a scrap yard and has a 20K dollar metal tester. I will pop the GC off one of these bullets and have him run it through his tester and see what the silver content really is.

BB

[leadman]

Bob Munden is no longer with us.
I sell some of my boolits to friends and I can tell you stories of what people will do! One guy that I know slightly wanted to load boolits in his 30-06 so I asked if he had ever done this before. He hadn't so I offered to have him bring his gun I would help him load them. No way! Later he calls me up and says my boolits are no good as they just fall right in the case. I insisted he bring his gun and ammo over which he did. He never sized the cases. Another friend loaded Makarov ammo without belling the case mouths and complained when they would not chamber.
A commercial caster has to do what they can to make the boolits work in spite of what people do. I tend to a harder boolit as some will buy a boolit "just for plinking", then go and try to shoot max. jacketed bullet data.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was pretty bummed about hearing of the passing of Bob Munden. I wanted to shake his hand at the SHOT Show this year in the hopes that some of his beingness wouyld run up my arm,,, but alass, He's gone.

I did shake Vicky's hand however, and so I got some second hand,,,,so to speak.

He was one of the truly great ones.

Randy

[LeftyDon]

Anyone care to comment on the article in the June issue of Handloader? Does anyone know the author Brian Pearce? Not really a bad article but nothing was mentioned about how these hard gas checked bullets are overkill for many of the loads tested. There as data for .41 mag. .44 mag. .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh and .500 mag. Very few of the loads break 1500 fps so I don't see the point in 21-24 BHN and gas checks for most if not all of the loads. It also indicated 2 percent silver in the alloy. I think that must be a typo and maybe should be more like 2 tenths of a percent I would guess. I checked the prices for these bullets and using the .41 cal TrueShot as an example a box of 100 is listed on their site for $31. If it is 2 percent silver then a 100 ct. box of the 265 grain .41 cal bullets would have 530 grains of silver that is more than an ounce of silver. The silver content alone would cost $25 to $30.

If you shoot heavy bullets in these calibers then the load data might be interesting. Does anyone read this magazine?

Tim

I'd guess that the 2% is wrong too, but if not and it really is in there, its there only because the cost to remove it from the lead would be more than it is worth even at today's silver price.

[LUBEDUDE]

I'd guess that the 2% is wrong too, but if not and it really is in there, its there only because the cost to remove it from the lead would cost more than it is worth even at today's silver price.

That's right!

When I buy lead at the foundry they sometimes provide me with a spec sheet. There is a list of about 10-12 metals in the lead. Among them are Gold, Copper, and I believe platinum is in there sometimes too.

[bluebird]

About gas checks on hot pistol loads:

I started sucking up firearms and forensic tech. in the early 50s and remember clearly the advent of the .44 Remington magnum revolver. The introduction of this cartridge/pistol combination was dramatic and extremely newsworthy. Reports of early handloading efforts for the new round noted bullet base deformation due to excessive heat, even with "hard" cast bullet material. The common solution for this handloading dilema was to use either a gas check cast bullet or a "half-jacket" commercially made bullet. In this light, using a gas check bullet for Mr. Pearce's experiments seems a reasonable approach.

Anyone care to comment on the article in the June issue of Handloader? Does anyone know the author Brian Pearce? Not really a bad article but nothing was mentioned about how these hard gas checked bullets are overkill for many of the loads tested. There as data for .41 mag. .44 mag. .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh and .500 mag. Very few of the loads break 1500 fps so I don't see the point in 21-24 BHN and gas checks for most if not all of the loads. It also indicated 2 percent silver in the alloy. I think that must be a typo and maybe should be more like 2 tenths of a percent I would guess. I checked the prices for these bullets and using the .41 cal TrueShot as an example a box of 100 is listed on their site for $31. If it is 2 percent silver then a 100 ct. box of the 265 grain .41 cal bullets would have 530 grains of silver that is more than an ounce of silver. The silver content alone would cost $25 to $30.

If you shoot heavy bullets in these calibers then the load data might be interesting. Does anyone read this magazine?

Tim

[NSB]

I've used Oregon Trail bullets in my 357max Low Wall and in my 45-70 High Wall, 1886, and Pedersoli Sharps. After trying many different cast bullets, I've found Oregon Trail bullets to work as well as any with the right powder at the right velocity. My High Wall and Sharps have both on occasion shot sub moa groups with them and my Low Wall will shoot most groups around 1.3-1.6" at a measured 114 yards. I do shoot them at very modest velocities though. I recently even shot a five group out of my Win 1886 in 45-70 of 1.4" at the same 114yd range using a Skinner rear sight with just the ghost ring (no aperture in sight). I don't have any complaints about Oregon Trail in those calibers and guns. I'm always trying new cast bullets and some shoot well and some do not but the Oregon Trail bullets have worked for me most of the time.

[MT Chambers]

His assignment for that issue of the magazine was to sell Oregon Trail bullets, period.

[Pressman]

My only experience with Oregon trail was several years ago, about 2000/2001. While working at a major gun parts distributing company I got a box for evaluation and possible inclusion in out catalog.

I loaded up some wrist snapping loads for my new to me 41 Whitetail caliber Blackhawk . Shooting for velocity and accuracy my third shot was a clean heart shot on the Shooting Crony. Penetrated stem to stern and knocked it and the tripod several feet forward.

Ken

[buglump]

My only experience with Oregon trail was several years ago, about 2000/2001. While working at a major gun parts distributing company I got a box for evaluation and possible inclusion in out catalog.

I loaded up some wrist snapping loads for my new to me 41 Whitetail caliber Blackhawk . Shooting for velocity and accuracy my third shot was a clean heart shot on the Shooting Crony. Penetrated stem to stern and knocked it and the tripod several feet forward.

Ken

I shoot the Oregon Trail 44cal 310g WNGC bullets in my Ruger Super Blackhawk and it is the only thing I carry in big bear country when prospecting or treasure hunting. I've had real good luck with this bullet in the .44 mag, also the .430 gr. FPGC in my single shot NEF 45/70, real accurate out to 150 yards. Of late I loaded the 170 gr. RNFP GC in a Marlin 336 30/30 and can hit in the meat at 100+ yards. The only product that disappointed me was the 200 gr. RN GC loaded in my 30/06.....broadside of an elephant at 100 yards.....maybe. Going to order some more of the 310 for the 44 and 430 grain for the 45/70. Have to order some .314 140 gr. from Beartooth for loading in my 1891 Argentine. The 525 gr. Pile Drivers really do work great for close up. Not much on distance shooting and would only use this for hogs on the ground in Florida or in Grizzly country to make these beasts sit down and shut up at short range.

[res45]

Back before I started casting I used to shoot the Oregon Trail 158 gr. SWC in my 357 mag loads I could buy them local for $30 per 500,still have about 250 left in the box. There stick was that they owned silver mines and added silver alloy which was supposed to be a form of lubricant to there alloy.

Reguardless I used to shoot there bullets at full mag. loads and never once got any leading. There were also sized out of the box at .359" which is what my Ruger BH likes.

[Larry Gibson]

I've shot thousands of Laser-Cast handgun bullets in 38/357s, 41 Magnums, 44 SPL and 44 Magnums, 45 ACP, 45 Schofield and 45 Colt. I've also fired a lot of Laser-Cast 30 cal (PB'd and GC'd ) and 45-70 rifle cast bullets over the years. I lived in NE Oregon when the company started and did a lot of R&D using the Laser-Cast bullets for Powder River Cartridge Company. A lot of that companies ammunition is used by a lot of cowboy action shooters including numerous champions. Laser-cast bullets and PRCC ammunition are very well thought of in that genre of shooting.

I have used, as said, the Laser-Cast bullets from very light SASS legal loads to full power loads for the cartridge. Since Laser-Cast changed lubes some years back I never got any leading. Accuracy was always on par with that expected; sometimes excellent and sometimes not so good depending on the load.....not the bullets. With good loads Laser-Cast bullets are an excellent choice for one who does not cast. It is one of only 2 commercial casters bullets I will recommend.

As to Brian Pierce and his writings; I generally enjoy them, sometimes disagree (not very often though) but most often read them. Given the magazines you find them in one has to take the commonality with a grain of salt. Such articles are written for mass of the readership not for the "experts" here. I will continue to read such magazines to keep up on new equipment and because I do learn from many of the articles.

Larry Gibson

[iraiam]

I used a lot of the Oregon Trial "Laser Cast" bullets, and the "True Shot" bullets only a few times. They are good bullets IMO, I pretty much loaded them all at full tilt with no problems, in 9mm, 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45-70. They are the only commercially cast bullet that I ever use. Much less now that I'm a casting nut of sorts.

The article the OP mentions, I'm not sure why they didn't load these bullets up to full power, I know they can deliver because I have done it.