Shooting the 200gr. Lyman#311299 at longer ranges in a .308.

[Dthunter]

This all gets back to Naval Gunnery which I consider to be the top of the heap.

When you consider that they could hit a target 25 miles away from a floating/moving platform, without the aid of electronic computers (yes they did have analog computers) in the mid 1930's!

It blows me away that that same technology is still at the fore front of what we are doing now. I guess they really figured out all this ballistic/trajectory stuff out in WWI in Europe when the artillery barrages went on for days and some people took note of what was going on.

I wonder how much windage a 16"/2500lb projectile needs dialed in, in a 30mph cross wind at 25 miles? while moving at 25 knots,,, at 30 degrees away from the target? While holding your mouth right?

Randy

Ha ha! No doubt! The drift would be measured in MANY yards!
It is truly amazing what our forefathers could do! They were the pioneers of this stuff! We only borrow the information they come up with!

[Four Fingers of Death]

You forgot to factor in current, wave height, swell, surface tension and atmospheric conditions. This sounds pretty impressive, but there was also a bit of let er' rip and see where she lands sort of computation added as well.

My father said that in parts of New Guinea, they didn't have any maps and the artillery would guestimate and fire a shot and keep lowering it until they could hear or see it land. One time they were facing a swag of very hostile Japs (was there any other kind??) and they had an artillery observer with them. He and his offsider crawled to a ridge and called in some fire. The first round hit the two of them, killing them both. They looked at their the Company Commander and said 'what will we do now?' The Company Commander, Gerry O'Day (affectionately known as GOD) said '**** and apply for leave!' A popular expression with the troops. He then said, 'well apart from bringing up all the grenades to us poor silly ******** at the sharp end, fix bayonets and charge the Japs, I can't think of anything else we can do on a three foot track on the side of a mountain, besides, we had better get going in case they decide to lob a few more in. Artillery wise, the safest place now seems to be where the Japs are'

Next thing, a fuzzy wuzzy (New Guinea native) came running up the track with a heap of grenades. Dad's Sargent shrugged and said 'I figured that's what we would be doing when the two Nine Mile Snipers (Aussie for Artillery) bought it.'

Dad said that occasionally a round would land in the middle of them, but mostly it was ok. He said they were realllllllllll glad when the boss eventually got maps and a radio.

[dk17hmr]

If your looking into getting a 30mm tube take a good look at the Leupold VX3 8.5-25x50mm with the Varmint Hunter reticle. I love mine. It has 94 MOA internal elevation and windage. I have it on my 300wsm setting on a 50MOA base and I still don't have a bottomed out zero at 100 yards, I'm about 6 minutes from the bottom, ideally I would like to be bottomed out or closer to the bottom at 200. As is with a 208gr A-max moving 2875fps I can get out to about 2000 yards with turning the turret. After 2000 that's when the reticle comes in to play.

I haven't shot any cast bullets passed 800 yards. I was playing around with my as issued 1903 Springfield and was able to keep the bullets close to my steel target at that distance. What you are getting as for groups is very impressive. I have been thinking about shooting my NOE 311-247 at distance for a while, I might have to try it in my Remington 700 30-06.

[Whiterabbit]

This all gets back to Naval Gunnery which I consider to be the top of the heap.

I wonder how much windage a 16"/2500lb projectile needs dialed in, in a 30mph cross wind at 25 miles? while moving at 25 knots,,, at 30 degrees away from the target? While holding your mouth right?

Randy

Trick question. I've never met a sailor that could hold his mouth.

[Dthunter]

Wow! Not much interest in longer range shooting with cast boolets?

[mroliver77]

Well I am impressed with your groups for 700 yards with cast! I have a trail along side my back field that I can get a little over 800 yards. My property line is 1/2 mile there along side a RR right of way. I need to do some cutting and chopping to straighten it up some yet. I thought ringing my gong at 250 then 350 with m1A with factory sights was runnin with the big dogs.
J

[W.R.Buchanan]

DTH: not that they aren't interested,,,very few have access to a 1000 yard range. Best I can do without traveling to the desert is 600 yards, and I am pretty fortunate to have access to that range.

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

We have a 900 yard range next to ours, but they are hard to get along with. They only shoot prone (and actually got the range license changed so that prone is the only allowed position, preventing others from using it. They don't like people doing anything except shooting the two details of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots at the particular distance range they are shooting for the day. They are so hard to get along with, their members come to my range to run barrels in, work out loads, etc. Nearly all 'long range' shooting ranges in Australia are controlled by these clowns and they all seem to make it difficult to shoot anything other then their set match.

[Whiterabbit]

make it hard to join in and shoot, and soon there will be no one left to join the club.

[Four Fingers of Death]

make it hard to join in and shoot, and soon there will be no one left to join the club.

Yep, they are always struggling with numbers, but want it all their way. I have spoken to them in the past, as the range is local Government owned and I felt that if we shared it with different shooting bodies and used it as often as possible, there would be less chance of losing the range. They respond by doing a ring around when anyone else tries to use the range and a couple of guys come up and have a shot and block the other group. Short sighted and mean spirited. Hard to understand.

[Whiterabbit]

The rules are simple, for those who live in un-Christian ways. You will play handball my way because I own the ball. Otherwise, I will take my ball and leave.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Plenty of stupid people in this world, and that's exactly what the gun grabbers are counting on. As soon as they get all our guns then they will want our cars,and then all the women.

I could go on and on.

Randy

[Dthunter]

I see what you guys are getting at. Its too bad! I guess I can consider myself lucky to have these areas to shoot. Most of them are within 25 miles of my home.

I can hardly wait to get home from work. (I work 2 weeks and then get 1 week off).
It has been raining every day form nealry three weeks! Ridiculous! That never happens here! Lol!
Its the wettest year i have ever experienced in Alberta!

[W.R.Buchanan]

FFOD: google "Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals" Read the Wikipedia blurb on him first and on the book second. This guy was a left wing kind of guy but in reality his methods are incredibly effective and can be used with equal efficacy by either side of the aisle.

The main point is the Community Organization factor. All power is derived from numbers. and in order to mass those numbers there are effective techniques that can employed. Saul Alinsky concocted most of them.

It is an interesting read and you will be much smarter after reading it. My thinking on these subjects has advanced considerably since reading the jist of it just two days ago.

All knowledge is good knowledge. If a person was not willing to use any of the rules, at least he would know what was being used against him.

DTH: this is good reading for your off time as well. Helps you understand why you've got the laws you've got in Canada. Really it is the same everywhere.

Randy

[LynC2]

That was some excellent shooting with cast loads! I'll give you an "attaboy" for that!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks WRB, I'll check it out.

When I lived in Sydney, the big range I used to shoot at was facing closure. The two bodies got together and made sure someone was there making noise every day and the horse riding school was operating every day as well, That was in the early 70s and the range is still popping. The local club will fold with the first serious blow I think. I hope I'm wrong, but they seem bent on self destruction.

[atr]

hey,,good shooting and thanks for posting your load information...
I have some 311299 and 4831 and was wondering how it would work in my .308.....you have given my a good starting point
atr

[Dthunter]

Thankyou for the ecouragement guys!
This is sooooo much fun!

I will look into that WR Buchanan, thankyou as well!

[Dthunter]

Hi Guys! FIELD REPORT

Got back home from work and spent part of the day shootin.
I went to my longest shooting area, and it was barely dry enough to navigate the road! But I could! WhooHoo!

The first picture is a group of 5 rounds shot at 800 Yards (again with the same load and the #311299,200 gr Boolet). The extream spread of the group isn't all that great, but the three in the center of the gong indicate the load still has potential.


These are the three rounds on the gong


The groups at 900 started to expand. Up to 18" on one group. Not what I wanted to see, but not terrible on the first try at his distance with cast Boolets. The mud splattered brown paper of the target butt makes the boolet holes a little harder to see, and I hope you can see the 3 holes. The measuring tape is in one boolet hole, to help measure the group size. The three holes make a nice elongated triangle.


The groups at 1000 varied a fair bit. As I finished shooting at 900, the wind progressively, slowly, increased. It was almost straight in my face (from about the 1:30 position). There was mostly vertical dispersion in these groups. This 5 shot group was very vertically strung. The chrony indicated a consistent velocity in those 5 rounds, so I have to assume the head wind was the culprit.


Sorry, I had a brain fart and never put the tape measure up to give you an exact measurement! Darn it!

I am going to give my rifle a good cleaning and head out again in the near future to see if I can put the groups onto the plate next time, and not just shoot for group size comparisons. Hope you guys enjoyed the pictures!

Here is a few pictures of my cast boolet rem 700 Varmint Laminate, and the target view.

[supe47]

Nice shootin'. I also shoot the 311299 in my Rem 700 sps. I've had good luck with Varget and have not tried 4831. Just might have to give it a try. Read about the liquid alox on the bullet nose but have not tried it. Even have a tray for holding them after dipping. On a good day i can hold 'em at 3/4 MOA out to 300 yds., the max of our range. I love it when after looking at my groups on the 300 yd line and then walking past my shooting table and seeing the CAST boolits. I've not tried the 311299 in my 30-06 yet, still haven't finished fire forming all the cases yet. The 308 seemed like a better case, powder capacity wise, to start with. I lose accuracy when I exceed about 1950 fps. Maybe the liquid alox will help that. I'm using a near Linotype alloy. Might just have to change to something a little softer to give me a little nose slump. I'm enjoying this thread.
Supe