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Thread: Shooting the 200gr. Lyman#311299 at longer ranges in a .308.

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Cool Shooting the 200gr. Lyman#311299 at longer ranges in a .308.

    Hi guys! I havent been to the site in a while. I just thought I would send a few lines telling about some fun wih my .308 Win.

    The other day I took my Rem700, Varmint Laminate out bear hunting. I hadnt shot my pet load in maybe 6-8 months. So we had to double check my point of aim. As we neared the gravel pit we shoot at here, we saw a perfectly highlighted rock on a far bank. My buddy was shooting his 7mm Magnum, with all the high end Berger VLD's and huskama scope.

    He liked the position and challenge this target offered. He ranged it at 525 yards and adjusted his scope. Took his shot and hit the 6-8" rock on the bottom edge. SMACK!

    After he was putting his rifle back into the truck, I asked him to spot for me. I wanted to see if all my load testing and work I did before was up to the task.
    I new the rifle was perfectly on site the last time I shot it, so all I should have to do is adjust my elevation and hold steady. I adjusted my elevation by 17.5 MOA and touched it off.

    I managed to hit the rock just left of center! Whoohoo!
    I was stoked! I shot two more times to show my buddy it was no accident. Two more hits later i was feeling pretty good about my load!

    We continued to the gravel pit and checked our 100 yard zeros as well.
    It sure is nice to show some people that cast bullet shooting is more capable than most think!
    Armed with this success and fun, I may try to extend my target shooting out further yet. Maybe getting to 1000 yards. My scope should have the adjustment, but I dont know if the bullet will stay stabil long enough. I guess I will see.

    My load is with CCI 250 primers
    Neck sized match brass
    A Charge of IMR4831
    A 200 grain #311299 boolet sized to .310".
    Lyman supermoly lube, and Hornady gascheck
    Alloy is 18lbs. wheel weights+ 8' of 50/50 lead,tin solder. (Air cooled)
    The boolet is seated out to engrave into the rifling as I close the bolt.
    I also coat the boolet nose with lee liquid allox to aid in hydraulicly centering the boolet nose in the bore. ( the boolet nose dia is .300", and my slugged bore is the same).
    Average velocity of this load is 2350 fps. Based on 50 rounds fired through the crony over two different days of shooting.

    Just a closing note:

    I target shoot to the limits of my equipment for a challenge/fun, and to learn. I "DO NOT" shoot at animals this way. My max distance I will shoot an animal with my cast load is 200 yards. I want my boolet alloy to be able to produce some degree of mushrooming.

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    This is pretty awesome. Thanks for your time in writing this up as I'm interested in long distance shooting with CB as well. If not for the challenge then to show my good friend that it can be done with decent accuracy.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7addict View Post
    This is pretty awesome. Thanks for your time in writing this up as I'm interested in long distance shooting with CB as well. If not for the challenge then to show my good friend that it can be done with decent accuracy.
    No problem at all!
    I had some help with a few guys on this forum as well. Its nice to share some succeses with you guys.

  4. #4
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Rem700, Varmint Laminate out bear hunting

    12" twist?

    Any bears?

    Larry Gibson

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    You bet Larry!

    Great hearing from you! I worked this load up with your help a little more than a year ago. We have seen about a dozen different bears this last week. One boar was nearly big enough to shoot! He had a heavy frame, big head, smaller ears, and gorgeous hide!
    My guess is about a 350-400 pounder.

    I have shot bears of this size before with various firearms/bows/ etc. I am hoping to find a bear in the 20"+ Size.

    We had one bear exhibit some weird behavior!
    We spotted him feeding along a pipeline about 100 yards away. We stopped and were initially field judging him to see if hes big enough to consider for my friend. He saw us and walked all the way up to the truck and started to circle around it. We drove ahead a ways thinking it would scare him. No dice! He just walked back to the truck and started to circle it again!

    This bear seemed a little aggresive, but he may have had people feeding him before. Sometimes the oilfield guys/workers will do this. He was too small to shoot, so we continued on our way.
    Only two more weeks left in the season.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is that confused bear. lol!

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    311299 should have a BC of .377 at velocities above 1800 fps -
    this looks about right -

    http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ba...php?t=90bfa0ee

    Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time ___Energy_____Vel[x+y]
    (yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
    0 -1.5___0__ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 0.04____ 0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 2453____ 2350
    50 0.09 _-0.17____-0.05____ 0.22____ 0.41____ 0.12____ 0.07___________ 2304 ____2278
    100 0.00__0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.76_____ 0.72_____ 0.21_____ 0.13___________ 2163_____2207
    150 -1.88 1.20 0.35 1.68 1.07 0.31 0.20 2027 2136
    200 -5.66 2.70 0.79 3.01 1.44 0.42 0.27 1898 2067
    250 -11.48 4.38 1.27 4.77 1.82 0.53 0.35 1775 1999
    300 -19.48 6.20 1.80 6.97 2.22 0.65 0.42 1657 1932
    350 -29.80 8.13 2.36 9.64 2.63 0.77 0.50 1546 1865
    400 -42.62 10.17 2.96 12.82 3.06 0.89 0.58 1439 1800
    450 -58.13 12.33 3.59 16.52 3.51 1.02 0.67 1338 1736
    500 -76.53 14.61 4.25 20.79 3.97 1.15 0.76 1243 1673
    550 -98.03 17.02 4.95 25.63 4.45 1.29 0.85 1155 1612
    600 -122.87 19.55 5.69 31.07 4.94 1.44 0.94 1074 1555
    650 -151.32 22.23 6.47 37.14 5.46 1.59 1.04 998 1499
    700 -183.63 25.05 7.29 43.84 5.98 1.74 1.14 929 1446
    750 -220.10 28.02 8.15 51.20 6.52 1.90 1.25 864 1395
    800 -261.03 31.16 9.06 59.24 7.07 2.06 1.36 804 1346
    850 -306.77 34.46 10.02 67.99 7.64 2.22 1.47 749 1299
    900 -357.66 37.95 11.04 77.45 8.22 2.39 1.59 698 1253
    950 -414.27 41.63 12.11 87.71 8.81 2.56 1.71 649 1209
    1000 -476.65 45.51 13.24 98.70 9.42 2.74 1.84 607 1169

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artful View Post
    311299 should have a BC of .377 at velocities above 1800 fps -
    this looks about right -

    http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ba...php?t=90bfa0ee

    Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time ___Energy_____Vel[x+y]
    (yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
    0 -1.5___0__ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 0.04____ 0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.00____ 2453____ 2350
    50 0.09 _-0.17____-0.05____ 0.22____ 0.41____ 0.12____ 0.07___________ 2304 ____2278
    100 0.00__0.00____ 0.00_____ 0.76_____ 0.72_____ 0.21_____ 0.13___________ 2163_____2207
    150 -1.88 1.20 0.35 1.68 1.07 0.31 0.20 2027 2136
    200 -5.66 2.70 0.79 3.01 1.44 0.42 0.27 1898 2067
    250 -11.48 4.38 1.27 4.77 1.82 0.53 0.35 1775 1999
    300 -19.48 6.20 1.80 6.97 2.22 0.65 0.42 1657 1932
    350 -29.80 8.13 2.36 9.64 2.63 0.77 0.50 1546 1865
    400 -42.62 10.17 2.96 12.82 3.06 0.89 0.58 1439 1800
    450 -58.13 12.33 3.59 16.52 3.51 1.02 0.67 1338 1736
    500 -76.53 14.61 4.25 20.79 3.97 1.15 0.76 1243 1673
    550 -98.03 17.02 4.95 25.63 4.45 1.29 0.85 1155 1612
    600 -122.87 19.55 5.69 31.07 4.94 1.44 0.94 1074 1555
    650 -151.32 22.23 6.47 37.14 5.46 1.59 1.04 998 1499
    700 -183.63 25.05 7.29 43.84 5.98 1.74 1.14 929 1446
    750 -220.10 28.02 8.15 51.20 6.52 1.90 1.25 864 1395
    800 -261.03 31.16 9.06 59.24 7.07 2.06 1.36 804 1346
    850 -306.77 34.46 10.02 67.99 7.64 2.22 1.47 749 1299
    900 -357.66 37.95 11.04 77.45 8.22 2.39 1.59 698 1253
    950 -414.27 41.63 12.11 87.71 8.81 2.56 1.71 649 1209
    1000 -476.65 45.51 13.24 98.70 9.42 2.74 1.84 607 1169

    LOL! Yep its certainly "IS" about right! The rock went smack!

    I reeeally hope I can get the boolets on the back board at 1000! There will be some fist celebrations happening if I hit the gong there as well!!!!

    Thanks for the responses guys!

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    If you have 45-48 MOA adjustment you should be able to get them there as your still supersonic. Let us know how it goes.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    I am headed back to work next week (not
    Much time), and my shooting area is all muddy. I may just make the mud trek and give it a try tomorrow.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Let us know how it goes.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Its been raining ridiculous amounts lately! My shooting areas are a mess! Hopefully they are drivable tomorrow!
    When I get out there, I will dial in 500 yards again, then 800. If all goes well, I will stretch it to 1000. It would be awesome to ring that gong!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hi guys! Well I had a chance to do some shooting today. Things went fairly well, except I could not get past the 700 yard marker!
    My shooting area has a spot between 725-850ish that humps up and blocks most of the target butt. this puts that 125 yard section really close to my line of site! The mirage gets real bad there! The next trip out there, I will have to place the target butt at the 300 yard shooting position, and I will shoot from the 1100 yard shooting position to get my 800yard distance.
    From my calculations, my maximum distance that I can adjust my scope is around the 900 yard mark. After that I will have to see if my mil dots will suffice to 1000.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As you can see, the 500 Yard Target group wasn't all that great today (8.25"), But I am still happy with it.

    The 600 yard group wasn't bad today. Two shots within 1.1" and the third at 7:00 below the gong. For some unknown reason, I didn't rotate the measuring tape to include the third shot! Brain Fart! LOL! The group should be around 6.75"

    The 700 Yard group I was very happy with! Again, sorry about the picture, I cut out the 4th shot on the bottom. my I phone screen is hard to see in the bright light. The widest part of this group is around 8-3/8". Great for this distance!
    I had adjusted my scope 2 clicks to the right after my group at 600. I figured I would like to center my better. One click too many I guess! LOL!
    Most of my groups dispersion is horizontal, so my loads standard deviation is hanging in there!

    When things dry up a little, and my next chance arrives, I will send a few more boolets down range and report the results again.

    For those who care, my load is as follows: This load is safe in my firearm, so start lower than my 46.0grains of IMR4831, and work up. Use this information at your own risk.

    Now that my butt is covered,

    Winchester fully prepped cases, Neck Sized
    CCI BR2 primers
    46.0 Grains of IMR 4831 Powder
    200 Grain, Lyman #311299 bore rider style Boolet, sized to .310", Hornady Copper Gas Check
    Lyman Super Moly Lube
    Boolet Nose section lubed with Lee Liquid Allox (I feel it helps to hydraulically center the bullet in the chamber).
    Boolet seated out to engrave lightly into the rifling lands.
    Average Velocity of this load is 2375fps. (over at least 50 test rounds/ over 2-3 different days).
    Boolet alloy: 18lbs wheel weight lead, plus 8 feet of 50/50 Lead/tin solder.
    Air cooled
    These boolets mushroom O.K., but they sometimes will fragment when shot into green spruce wood (length wise with grain).

    Hopefully this info can help some fellow casters!

    Please remember to start lower on the powder charge and work up. This powder charge has the powder at the base of the neck. My case necks don't blacken at this charge. I found at 43.0grains the necks blackened, but it shot very well!
    Last edited by Dthunter; 06-02-2013 at 12:23 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
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    DT: what kind of scope do you have on that gun, and what kind of reticle does it have?

    Something I would highly recommend is a video offered by Magpul called "Art of the Precision Rifle." It is done by Travis Haley and Chris Costas, and the "teacher" for the course is Todd Hodnett.

    This guys knows his stuff and can articulate this very technical subject better than anyone I have ever heard. He can explain all of his concepts in simple plain english, and he doesn't stutter or hesitate when asked a question. (good indicator of complete understanding and competance)

    After watching it you will have a much better idea of how to ring that gong. It is 5 disks long! You will have to watch these videos multiple times as the subject is very complex, however it is still very doable for anyone of average or above average intelect. These guys are all pretty smart guys, but they are also smart enough to understand that not everyone is at their level, and so they teach to everyone. If you are smart enough to run a Ballistic Calculator then you are smart enough for this course.

    You were talking about running out of adjustment in your scope. (Which is what made me think about this post.) He has simple ways to get around all of that, by using different parts of the reticle for sighting.

    I highly recommend this video course for the aspiring long range shooter. Todd Hodnett is the guy who trains our military sniper instructors. And he is defiantely that good. You will understand what I'm saying within a few minutes of listening to him.

    I really like what you've done so far, as 311299 is one of my favorite Boolits. I have a NOE mould for this boolit as well.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    DT: what kind of scope do you have on that gun, and what kind of reticle does it have?

    Something I would highly recommend is a video offered by Magpul called "Art of the Precision Rifle." It is done by Travis Haley and Chris Costas, and the "teacher" for the course is Todd Hodnett.

    This guys knows his stuff and can articulate this very technical subject better than anyone I have ever heard. He can explain all of his concepts in simple plain english, and he doesn't stutter or hesitate when asked a question. (good indicator of complete understanding and competance)

    After watching it you will have a much better idea of how to ring that gong. It is 5 disks long! You will have to watch these videos multiple times as the subject is very complex, however it is still very doable for anyone of average or above average intelect. These guys are all pretty smart guys, but they are also smart enough to understand that not everyone is at their level, and so they teach to everyone. If you are smart enough to run a Ballistic Calculator then you are smart enough for this course.

    You were talking about running out of adjustment in your scope. (Which is what made me think about this post.) He has simple ways to get around all of that, by using different parts of the reticle for sighting.

    I highly recommend this video course for the aspiring long range shooter. Todd Hodnett is the guy who trains our military sniper instructors. And he is defiantely that good. You will understand what I'm saying within a few minutes of listening to him.

    I really like what you've done so far, as 311299 is one of my favorite Boolits. I have a NOE mould for this boolit as well.

    Randy

    Thanks Randy!
    I dont have much trouble hitting the gong normally (Weather permitting). These groups were to show how suprizingly well these boolets seem to fly. These are litterally the first groups ever with these boolets at this distance. It was an experiment so to speak. From one group on this target, I have the information I need to record rhe proper measurements to consistantly hit the gong. the science behind long range shooting is really interesring! I have studied "Brian Litz" Applied Ballitstics For The Long Range Shooter. Awsome book!

    I regularily shoot out to 1500 & 1760yards with a variety of tactical rifles. I highly promote these kinds of books for long range shooting! It is very addictive!

    The scope is a Cheap bushnell 5-15power, 3200, tactical. Mildot retical.
    Thanks for the reply Randy!
    Last edited by Dthunter; 06-02-2013 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Addtional info

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    W.R.Buchannon:

    My adjustments on my scope will allow me to adjust out to about 890 yards. Affer that, I Will use the MilDot subtensions for the balance of my trajectory solution. The only weakness in this is that the mildots on my scope havent been proven yet. But thats for another function test/thread.

    I am not new to this long range stuff, I have shot in competition out to a mile, and come out on top. A reallly good day indeed! I am quite proud of that actually!
    I have had the help of allot of people to get me there!

    And if there is one thing I have learned, is that this style of shooting will humble you in a heartbeat! Its difficult & unforgiving for missed details! But man I love it! So very fullfilling when you calculate your solution, set up, and make your adjustments according to live conditions, send your round down range to hit a target!

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    I always like the 311291. I must try it in my 700 SPS Tactical.
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  17. #17
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    Doc Highwall's Avatar
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    I liked the Brian Litz Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting book also. So much so that when he came out with the second edition book I bought it.

    You really do need a 20 minuet forward sloping scope base to shoot past 8-900 yards or you will run out of elevation, and if you do get there you will have no windage to be useful enough.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Highwall View Post
    I liked the Brian Litz Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting book also. So much so that when he came out with the second edition book I bought it.

    You really do need a 20 minuet forward sloping scope base to shoot past 8-900 yards or you will run out of elevation, and if you do get there you will have no windage to be useful enough.

    You bet!
    I installed a 20 MOA rail, and Burris signature rings. I used the +.010 on the bottom of the back ring, and -.010" on the bottom of the front ring to give me plenty of vertical bias. When my scope is set for a 150 yard zero, I only have 1MOA of down movement left. This setup is maximized.

    The only thing I can do to increase my potential range is to get a 30mm tube scope with a larger range of movement. that is already in the works for the near future.
    I love this stuff!
    Last edited by Dthunter; 06-03-2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Spelling

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    For example say you have your rifle setup with a 100 yard zero and only 2 minuets up from the bottom, now add up the number of minuets of change from 100 yards to 1000 yards, I will do a slight rounding with a M118 ammo.

    100 to 200 = 3min.
    200 to 300 = 4min.
    300 to 600 = 11min
    600 to 1000 = 27min.
    ------------------------
    Total = 38min.

    A 1" tube scope has only 40 min. total, +- 20 min from the center. this leaves almost zero windage at both top and bottom of scope adjustments.

    This is why a 30mm scope tube is better but still needs a 20min. forward slope or it will also be hindered by lack of windage at the top of it's elevation.

  20. #20
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    This all gets back to Naval Gunnery which I consider to be the top of the heap.

    When you consider that they could hit a target 25 miles away from a floating/moving platform, without the aid of electronic computers (yes they did have analog computers) in the mid 1930's!

    It blows me away that that same technology is still at the fore front of what we are doing now. I guess they really figured out all this ballistic/trajectory stuff out in WWI in Europe when the artillery barrages went on for days and some people took note of what was going on.

    I wonder how much windage a 16"/2500lb projectile needs dialed in, in a 30mph cross wind at 25 miles? while moving at 25 knots,,, at 30 degrees away from the target? While holding your mouth right?

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check