H414 and cast

[Mike Hughes]

I recently aquired 8 lbs of H414 and can't find much data for cast loads. Is this powder safe to use with reduced loads? I cast and load for several 30 cal (30-06, 30-30, 7.62 x 54r,and 300 blk). Was hoping it might work with some of these. Any input or advice is always appreciated

[flounderman]

I bought a quanity of wc-852 years ago and the data I received with it said it was similar to h 414. I load almost everything but 223 with it, but not reduced loads. It's a versatile powder, and probably would work with reduced loads, with a filler. Too much air space combined with slow powder, can raise pressures

[pipehand]

H-414 and Winchester 760 are the same powder. I remember someone loading the RCBS 30-180FN in a 30-30 with that powder at pretty impressive velocities. Paco Kelly, maybe?

[lylejb]

H414 is close to IMR4350 in burn speed ,and that's slow.

It's not something I would want to reduce much, maybe 10% below max as a starting load. I don't think you'll find much happiness until the pressure gets higher.

I'm currently working with it in 308 norma mag, (with j-words) and after I finish that I'll try it in 30-06.

I think it could work in 30-30 with full loads, and will try that at some time.

[mainiac]

I use 414 in an old marlin 336a in thutty-thutty.It is by far the most accurate powder with the noe 165 boolit.

[wmitty]

W30WCF has recommended H414 for the .30-30 in several of his posts... I believe he was using a 24" barrel and it seemed like heavier boolits; maybe the 311284. (not sure). I have not tried it 'cause I know for a FACT it is excellent in the .22-250 with jacketed bullets.

[Win94ae]

I have used it in my 30-30 and 30-06s using jacketed bullets. It would hang-fire in cold temperatures when my loads were a bit light. I wouldn't try reduced loads.

[Gunor]

I loaded some 308 - 311299 and magnum primers for semi 308. The magnum primers where recommended by a number of uses. Functioned fine in M-1a and AR-10

[madsenshooter]

You want to use the magnum primers. In full velocity 06 jacketed loads, with a regular primer unburnt powder would fall back in the chamber when the round was extracted. I have used it quite a bit in my Krag, 36.5gr with bullets 180gr and up to 220. Should make a great cast bullet powder for the 300BLK, pressure should be cast bullet friendly, even with the case full. In 30-06, around 42gr should get you 2000 fps with a heavy bullet like the 311284.

Some people here got this SEE thing in their heads that keeps them from reducing slow powders. I, on the other hand don't feel an SEE is likely with a cast bullet. There's lots of data in Lee's Modern Reloading book for the powder in 30/30, 308 and 30-06. It'll burn dirty in reduced loads, actually burns dirty in full pressure loads, but it'll work. Don't let the SEE paranoid folks drive you away from it.

[Mike Hughes]

Would be great to be able to use it with the 300 blk. I have used the H414 for full powered jacketed loads in the 30-06 and the recoil becomes brutal and shoulder starts hurting after about 20 rounds. It would be nice to have something a bit more mild. I have always been SEE paranoid, but with the small case capacity of the 300 blk , I think I may load a few to near case capacity and check for pressure signs. Also looking into some 30-30 loads. Thanks to everyone for your responses

[frnkeore]

You want to use the magnum primers. In full velocity 06 jacketed loads, with a regular primer unburnt powder would fall back in the chamber when the round was extracted. I have used it quite a bit in my Krag, 36.5gr with bullets 180gr and up to 220. Should make a great cast bullet powder for the 300BLK, pressure should be cast bullet friendly, even with the case full. In 30-06, around 42gr should get you 2000 fps with a heavy bullet like the 311284.

Some people here got this SEE thing in their heads that keeps them from reducing slow powders. I, on the other hand don't feel an SEE is likely with a cast bullet. There's lots of data in Lee's Modern Reloading book for the powder in 30/30, 308 and 30-06. It'll burn dirty in reduced loads, actually burns dirty in full pressure loads, but it'll work. Don't let the SEE paranoid folks drive you away from it.

Well said!

Frank

[Mike Hughes]

What the **** does SEE mean?

S.E.E. = secondary explosion effect. I have read of cases exploding with a undercharge of a slow burning powder. I don't know much about it.

[felix]

No need to work up a load in 300BO. Fill the case to bottom of projectile with no compression. The odds are good that the powder burns too slowly for all the projectiles contemplated. ... felix

[madsenshooter]

Would be great to be able to use it with the 300 blk. I have used the H414 for full powered jacketed loads in the 30-06 and the recoil becomes brutal and shoulder starts hurting after about 20 rounds. It would be nice to have something a bit more mild. I have always been SEE paranoid, but with the small case capacity of the 300 blk , I think I may load a few to near case capacity and check for pressure signs. Also looking into some 30-30 loads. Thanks to everyone for your responses

I know what you mean about the recoil, I've used a caseful of an even slower burning ball powder, WC860, in my Krag rifle. Thought I was shooting one of my 06 rifles! It's amazing to me how large a portion of recoil is from the jet of gas out the muzzle.

[1500FPS]

Some of the parameters to figuring up recoil is bullet weight, powder charge weight, rifle weight, and muzzle velocity.

[Nickle]

H414/Win 760 is my "go to" powder for jacketed loads in the Krag. Pretty good on a lot of others too.

And, so you know, some brands of primers are hotter than others. I use Winchester primers with ball powder as a rule. Lights better. Priming compound is said to be different and more stable (same w/ CCI). I don't know about that totally, but I have seen enough evidence to tell me to use Winchester or CCI primers in military semi autos. Remington 7 1/2s are said to be OK too.

[Lloyd Smale]

your fighting 3 problems with it. For one its to slow burning for two its hard to ignite with reduced charges and 3 its hotter burning the stick powders. All things that are best avoided for cast shooting.

[JDL]

I've been using 35 grains of H-414 with the RCBS 30-180FN in 4 different .30-30s. This combination is the most consistently accurate of any tried and the velocity runs 1970 from a 24" barrel.

[madsenshooter]

I had occasion recently to pull down some 30 Remington ammo. The older ones were loaded with 3031, the newer ones were all loaded with a powder that resembles 760/H414 and likely burns about the same speed as the charges fall within published data for either. Could be Remington's way of keeping the pressure level down for guns that are approaching, or already past, the century mark.

Results are what matters Lloyd, got some Krag loads that I use an even slower burning ball powder in, when I get a chance to fire them I'll get back to this thread. In my opinion, Richard Lee is right, slower powders do work better. That statement won't cover all scenarios, but most.

[Nickle]

A classic load for 150 grain j-words in a Krag is 44 grains of H414/760.