Trapdoor Choice

[Gunor]

Two local gun shops have trapdoors.

1879 - nice over all. Excellent looking bore. And about $1000. Not an expert, but probably worth that based on gunbroker looking. 1879 rear sight. Great finish.

1888 - excellent looking bore. Exterior metal - portions look like it was stored in a barn. Buttplate is the swinging trapdoor and pitted. Muzzle, exterior, is slightly pitted. Front sight blade replaced with higher one, not very well done, can be clean up. Really not bad looking gun, all functional. Rod bayonet type. Buffington rear sight. A little more exterior pitting.
About $450

Both guns are all there, I would not be embarrassed by either.

The $1000 is definitely nicer, but twice the price.

Which one should I buy?

Collection yes, but shooter first.

Don't beat me up on the wrong models and dates. At least yet.

1870 rear sight
rod bayonet and Buffington rs.

Geoff in Oregon

[wch]

Are you looking at "collector value"?
If not, and you are reasonably handy, you might be able to turn that $450.00 rifle into a "silk purse".
Shooting either shouldn't hurt your investment, either.

[Oldeyes]

Shooter first, then go for the Buffington rear sight as it has windage adjustment and a peep. You will find that the front sight needs to be higher for 100 yard zero, but the blade is pinned in and easy to replace. I used an '03-A3 Springfield blade in mine.
$450 leaves more money for brass/dies/molds etc., hint hint, and it sounds like you can clean 'er up to be more presentable.
Now me, I'd go for the 1879 only because I don't have that one and my other Trapdoors are more rack grade/ shooters than pretty.

[Scharfschuetze]

$450 is an awfully good price for a Trapdoor with a good bore. Check the windage screw on the 1888 as many of them were pinned by the armorer at some point and will not allow deflection for wind. Beats me why they did that, but I've seen it on a few 1888s as well as on one of mine.

When it comes to Trapdoors, I'm half collector and half shooter so I'm in no position to recommend either! I'll bet that down the road, you'll wish that you'd bought both. My main shooting Trapdoor (1873 with 1879 modifications) was bought to be such as it had been refinished (quite well by the way) which makes it less desirable as a collector.

Larry Gibson has an excellent thread in the Single Shot forum on Trapdoors and it should get you up to speed on reloading for the Trapdoor if you haven't done so already.

[fouronesix]

From the sellers point of view- the 1000.00 gun seems to be classified as a collector and the 450.00 gun as a shooter. Since they are local, one way to help the decision would be to slug the bores. Potentially it'd be easier to cast/load for the one with the groove diameter closer to .458- of course knowing that most TD bores tend toward the generous side. Then using a small mirror placed near the breech and light at muzzle- study carefully the lands just forward of the throat. The one with sharper lands has better potential to shoot well. Other that that and without looking at them in hand, I'd pick the 450.00 M88 rod bayo model with the Buffington sight.

[bob208]

well i have had 3 1888 models and they all have had large bores. like .460-463. the other models are a little closer to size.

now this is comming from a guy that has a 79 and a 88. i say get them both. you can never have too many trapdoors.

[MtGun44]

Offer $1250 for the pair.

My best accy with TDs with fat bores has been with Lee HB 405. Took a
bushel basket group with boolits hitting sideways at 100 down to 4"
on first try.

Bill

[Gunor]

Sorry - two different stores.
I am leaning towards the Buffington sight and windage.

Now I just need to read and see how Larry G would load for it.

[45 2.1]

There are three variations of the 1879 rear sight (basically windage in them). As a shooter plinker I would go with the 1879. The 1888's can be made to shoot quite well, but do not have the feel of the 1879. The Lee 405 gr. hollow base is a good boolit to use.

[Gunor]

Attachment 72073

Buffington version

Bore, with a light - looks good and shiny.
I think has a 'patina' of rust in the bore - but still shiny.

Muzzle - rough and corroded crown. Rough for the first 1/4 inch.

It probably clean up with taking the first 1/4" off.

I like to slug it, but LGS guy, nice, but not very knowledgable in the way of the cast boolit, not that I am - by a long shot.

Rest the metal - fine. Below my hand in the photo, non pitted metal. BP corrosion?

Rear sight works - screws turn.

It is just the two ends of the rifle are slightly rough.

I'll email the photo if needed.

And I might be being over sensitive on the muzzle condition

Geoff in Oregon

[MtGun44]

Muzzle is pretty important to a proper launch.

Bill

[Scharfschuetze]

I see a lot of Trapdoors with the first quarter inch or so worn like that. I'm pretty sure that it's from the cleaning rod rubbing the barrel during cleaning. The issue barracks cleaning rod was wood, so when it got dirty, it acted like a rat tail file and I'm sure the troopers just scraped away in order to satisfy their sergeant when it came to weapons inspection. A second theory that I have is that the large .45 cal bore linted up near the muzzle in storage or in a case and the lint, being hygroscopic, held moisture and caused some rusting in that first quarter inch too. I've seen a couple of Trapdoors (usually in poor shape) in the gun stores with just such lint or spider produced web or insect cocoon just below the muzzle.

By the way, the 1888s came with a combo tool as well as a barrel cleaning button that screwed on the rear of the ramrod/baynet to act as a jag for the cleaning patch. Check under the hinged but plate and see if its there in the slot for it in the butstock. I've only got one full set with the cleaning button, but it never hurts to look. There is also a broken shell extractor that came with the 1888 which also fits into the butstock.

I've had the best luck for absolute accuracy with the 405 grain Lee mold with the hollow base using beeswax-vasoline lube. With soft lead over black powder, it will slug up to fill the grooves well and provide good accuracy. I've also had good luck with the RCBS 405 grain gas check cast bullet (unsized) over smokeless powder. I keep velocities down between 1200 and 1300 fps with smokeless in deference to my rifles' ages. The 1879 sight, once zeroed with a proper height front sight generally tracks pretty well out to extended ranges. I like it better than the Buffington sight, but the Buffington is much easier to adjust for wind conditions when shooting at long range.

[Gunor]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=344926559

This is the gun for $1000. Any thoughts on worth from Trapdoor experts?

I don't have the cash to buy, maybe trade - and I have talked to the dealer about it.

I have always believed that cash in hand always counts first. So I have no problem with it being on gunbroker.

Any one need a VZ52 rifle and a case of ammo.........cash price....

Just thought I share. The bore is very nice and the crown is great.

Geoff in Oregon

[Scharfschuetze]

Gunor,

That looks like a pretty nice one. I don't know why it's listed as an 1878 as it is an 1873 with the modifications of 1879. The seller apparently mistook the 3 on the breech block as an 8 and thus the confusion. The cartouch of Samual W Porter (SWP) of Springfield Armory is unfortunately not legible for me for the decade digit, but it was probably 1884 indicating it was probably accepted by the military in that year. That's assuming that it is the original stock which it appears to be.

You wouldn't get hurt buying it at its current price of the mid $600 range thinks I.