Safety of hubel Sabot in .875 muzzle thickness barrel?

[OnHoPr]

You might be able to patch a round ball in your situation such as in a smooth bore muzzle loader. Pillow ticking comes in various thicknesses to accommodate the differences in bore, ball, and accuracy. Lubes for the patches come in many different forms so the actual accuracy can be enhanced by either patch or lube. Pillow ticking is not the only patch material.

[cpileri]

Paper patching could work. I'd need practice wrapping a total of .02-.03 thickness around a rb; but wrapping .08 around a .729 ought to be easier.

I did load a few .678 RBs into the Downrange-Hornady-knock-off-brand Versalite wads, and pushed them backwards thru the bore and they do require the perfect 6-10 lbs of pressure to move. So I loaded up a few of them to try out as well. Just 2x20gafiller wads in the shotcup brought the ball up enough for the roll crimp. FYI: the versalite wad base is narrow enough that it fits right in the groove in a BPI x12x gas seal, lowering the wad column a smidge. Just something to keep in mind.

I think I will test them out at 25yds, but I know I will need to move farther out to see if the hubel-sabots seperate.

Next range trip will be FUN though!

C-

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Brother Cpileri, 6 point fold crimp instead of roll crimp for better launch and accuracy.

As I said before we together will change a few things, the way we load RB, Slugs and Sabots!

Whether RB or Slug in wad, we will help improve it by fold crimping them.

Raise your Rb or Slug to the point that it will open up the fold crimp without mangling the wad petals.


Please be sure to post pictures from the range.
Have fun while you are at it!

"No man is a failure who is enjoying life at the range."- Blazing Sabots

Best regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl

[cpileri]

Thanks for the crimp advice.
I've been doing roll crimps because my star crimps... well.. stink.
I need a real reloading press.
C-

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Cpileri, you can get a Lee Load All to fold crimp and load slugs just fine.
I personally use progressive loader's as single stage loader, as I check each charge individually and double check.

Have fun, while you are at it!

"No man is a failure who is enjoying life at the range."- Blazing Sabots

Best regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl

[cpileri]

Im asking for one for Father's Day. Here's hoping...

Will be testing the loads out next tuesday and will post back, of course!
C-

[cpileri]

Ok, here's the proposed line-up for the next testing session:

load test, Tues 28 May 2013
Temp:
Wind:
Humidity:
Platform: Rossi single shot 3”chamber, forcing cone reamed/polished, 23” bbl, smoothbore overbored to .737 (unless otherwise specified), cylinder bore choke (i.e. none)
Target distance: 25 yds unless otherwise specified

Load: 1
Hull: Grey Win HS 2.75”
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 2x 17.5 Green Dot, 2 x18.5gr Green Dot
Wad column: Win12AA
Load: .678 Round Ball (intended for .727 bore)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: fold (poorly)

Load: 2
Hull: Fed 3” red
Primer: Fed 209
Powder & Charge: 17gr Green Dot
Wad column: X12X gas seal, ¾ Circle Fly Fiber 12ga wad, Win 12AA w petals cut off
Load: .735 Rb paper patched to .741, paper tail inserted into 2x ‘donut’ felt wads
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: fold (poorly)

Load: 3
Hull: Fio 3” brown
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 17gr Green Dot
Wad column: X12X, Down Range (aftermarket for Hornady) Versalite, 2x20ga in cup to bring ball up
Load: .678 RB (better fit for .737 bore)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: roll (2 w/ clear OS disc, one w/ just roll crimp)

Load: 4 (polishing load only)
Hull: green Rem STS
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 15gr Green Dot
Wad column: 2xCircle Fly 12ga Fiber wads rolled in Steel Glo powder, 1x BP ‘donut’ felt wad rolled in Steel Glo)
Load: .735 RB (sprue in hole of donut wad)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: Fold (some poorly, some OK)

Load: 5 (Hubel Sabot test)
Hull: Fio 3” brown
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 1x35gr Alliant Steel, 1x 36gr A. Steel, 1x 37gr Steel, 2x 38gr Steel
Wad column: x12x gas seal, a 1/4" hard (dark) nitro card, Hubel Sabot
Load: .58 Minie Ball (440gr) in sabot
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: clear OS disc, roll crimp


Load: 6 (VdoMemorie “mighty” buck’n’ball)
Hull: mixed (1 Brenneke 2.75”, one Fed red, etc)
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 29gr Longshot
Wad column: X12X, .125 hard NC on top, and see below
Load: 6x00Buck, then .17 dark NC, then .678RB in cup portion only of Win AA12 wad
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: fold (poorly)

Load: 7
Hull: Fed 3” red
Primer: Fed 209
Powder & Charge: 28gr HS-6
Wad column: thin fiber filler wad, 2.75” TPS wad
Load: 48 pellets F-shot (~775gr)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: clear OS disc, roll crimp

Load: 8
Hull: Fio 3” brown
Primer: Fio 616
Powder & Charge: 48gr IMR-4227
Wad column: X12X, .17 hard NC, 3/32 cork
Load: 1043gr hardcast, lubed slug (1x sized .725, 1x sized .729)
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: OS Card, Roll crimp

Load: 9 (factory Holland & Holland paradox load, as sold by Lewis Drake)
Hull: whatever 2.5” Holland & Holland uses
Primer: whatever H&H uses
Powder & Charge: whatever H&H uses
Wad column: whatever H&H uses
Load: .735 Fosbury-style 740gr solid
Overshot (if any) & Crimp: roll

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Cpileri, on your load #6 you forgot the main ingredient a .170 Darker nitro card to separate the Buck and ball with a stiff card to protect one another from damaging!
You need a .125-12 nitro card on top of X 12 X too then your buck shot!
Start low at 26.5, 27, 27.5 gr Longshot!

"No man is a failure who is enjoying life at the range."- Blazing Sabots

Best regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl

[cpileri]

Thanks.
And I will load some w the lesser powder charges, too. No need to beat my shoulder that much.
C-

[cpileri]

Well, here are the results. Later will post some reclaimed wad and component pictures for analysis. I hope the pictures load well.
Temp 78degF
Humidity 80%
winds 6mph w slight gusts

Load 1: light and easy and even though designed for a .727 bore, shot pretty well. The 75yr old shooter these were developed for should be very pleased. He is shooting them in a Baikal over-under, in case anyone is interested in his results later.


Of note, all hulls extracted/ejectedwith authority until load 8. below.

[cpileri]

Load 2: first hull was poorly (incomplete closure) fold crimped, the other 2 had totally sunken (as in too deep for general purposes) fold crimps and shot well.

[cpileri]

BTW, Point of Aim was always at the crossing of 2 strips of tape, usually an X, but in later posts you'll see a backwards Y-ish thing- a result of taping a tear in the paper. :0
Load 3: thought this one would be 'perfect' based on the .737 combination. here's the target:

The first shot was lacking the OS clear disc, the 2nd and 3rd were roll crimped.

[cpileri]

Load 4 was just for polishing up the bore, so I just launched it at stuff; but it seemed to go where I was pointing- even a log at 50yds away. Maybe I'm on to something.
Load 5: the one you've been waiting for (Hubel sabot load thru a smoothbore)

So looking at it, the first shot hole was small; as if the sabot did not release or even open at this close range. Later, I did find 2 open wads (pics to come) which seem to correspond to the hotter loads. The next shot holes were wider seeming to indicated the wad petals were opening. Not sure if the 2 I recovered were the hottest 38gr loads or not. the 36gr load hit closest to POA, though only a sample size of 1 shot. The group is about 4 inches at 25 yds. But maybe can be tightened up w careful load development. All loads fired w/ Fio 616 primers and A.Steel powder, no issues. Maybe some of this hexagonal boronitride powder I have will help the sabot release earlier? More experimenting is in order. Thanks Mr.Hubel!

[cpileri]

Load 6: 2 pics. First pic is of first shot only, second of an agglomerate of both of course.

[cpileri]

In Load 6, pic 1 above; RB is the .678 ball, and the numbers are the buckshot. Should put the hurt on large nuisances at defense range!
Load 6, pic 2:

Arrows indicate the second shot buckshot pellets.

[cpileri]

Load 7: what a KICKER!! esp in this light gun. This one shot well enough, I think, for a cylinder bore. Intended for coyote at 20-30 yards. Note that this load blew the wad, base had a hole in it and one pellet was recovered still inside the wad, to the left where it blasted the PVC pipe support.
Attachment 71854
and almost all 48 pellets were on the paper. Pattern has holes in it, though. Any suggestions?

[cpileri]

Load 8: only fired one shot, as it stuck in the chamber, though only required a slight tap w a wooden dowel to remove. Shot was the .725 sized slug. Lots of unburned powder along the bore. I wonder how much lower charge I can go: psi listed on this load is only 8333psi.
Figuring that the .729 would only increase sidewall pressure, maybe not, but that's what i thought; I didnt try it.
I might be interested in .737 sized and a lighter charge though...
Attachment 71855

I still LIKED it, and want to try more along these lines (hardcast, slow, heavy)

[cpileri]

And finally, load 9: a factory H&H load. Note that the 2 wads (that I didnt know were there before firing it) hit the target as well. it hit quite high, but at 75 or 100yards or whatever these things are intended for, I'm sure it would drop right i there. Admittedly, only 1 shot was fired.


Attachment 71856

So wht do you all think?

I'll post a line up of recovered components later. The Rossi held up well, stayed tight.
C-

[cpileri]

Here are some pics of the components I was able to recover. First a line up of them all:

[cpileri]

Next the blown wad from Load 7 with the recovered pellet. Hard to see the hole i the mangled base. Sorry.