Have you ever??

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is a realtively common malfunction with AR's. The primer pockets were probably a little loose on those cases resulting in a primer blowing out of the pocket and skewering itself onto the protruding firing pin. maybe they use pistol primers?

Then as the action cycled it stripped another round and fed it to the chamber, but the bolt could not go into battery due to the blown primer being in the way. The gun could not fire in this condition. And it probably was made worse when they tried to cycle the bolt and stripped another round and shoved it in behind the first creating a double feed.

This is one of the shortcomings of the AR design. They also have a tendency to try to simultaniously strip two rounds off the mag and shove them into the hole, wedging both.

The correct action to clear a type 3 malfunction is to lock the bolt open, drop the mag, and if the bolt will move full travel then rack rack rack reinsert mag and rack.

If the bolt will not go full travel it means something is stuck in the hole and you must lock the bolt open and using your support hand, (so you don't inadvertantly release the bolt onto your trigger finger) stick your fingers into the mag well and fish around until you have removed all offending debris,and the re-load the gun.

IN the case of the blown primer scenario, the bolt would not close all the way after you cleared the gun and tried to reload it. At that point you have a broke gun and it's time to either run or get the pistol out,,, or both.

It should have taken no more than 15-30 seconds to figure all this out. If it took longer you're probably dead.

This is the reason why we go to shooting schools, so we can learn how to deal with this type of stuff. UNfortunately most people don't attend these schools, and as a result we have less than trained individuals at our ranges. Rereational shooting does not mean incompetant shooting.

You will note that the majority of thes occurances happen on weekdays when nobody is around. There is a reason for this, and it is because the individuals we are talking about know they are incompetant and are trying to avoid contact with those who are.

I am not a big "lets have some new laws" kind of guy, however when it comes to common military battle rifles, it would be nice if it was manditory that when you bought the gun you also bought a class to learn how to use it safely and efficiently. That class needs to be about 4 days long too,a s nobody is going to get this stuff in an afternoon!

I personally think that it is a good idea that you know how to run a gun if you are going to own that gun. Unfortunately many people don't give a ship about what I think, so they will never get trained beyond watching a video or playing video games. Real range time with real instructors is the only way to become competant with a complex weapon such as an AR 15 or any other battle rifle for that matter.

Fortunately since most people are not going to get competant instruction of using their guns, If I do have to go up against them, I can be pretty confident that I am better than they are. Now if I see SEALS or someother easily identifiable gunfighter type exiting the Black Suburban then I'm running the other direction!

Randy

[Moonie]

Actually it's not that uncommon for a primer to be "stuck" in the LPG. I've had it happen with some gunshow reloads.

gunshow reloads?? That is the scary part of this entire story.

[smokeywolf]

Don't like public ranges. But like most, if I want to shoot, it's either a public range or drive 2 hours each way to get far enough out in the desert so that the Kali liberal idiots don't have a conniption.
Like PS Paul, I no longer go the range on weekends. At the range I frequent, I've found that Wednesdays are when more of the old timers like myself are present.

As far as shooting gunshow reloads.........
I don't like putting my life or that of my children in someone else's hands. That means I never shoot someone else's reloads.

smokeywolf

[Threepersons]

Haven't been to a public range in many, many moons.
Is not safe. Often our SASS range has a few harry moments.
600,000 acres of public land within 10 miles of my house to
shoot on.

[alamogunr]

I belong to a private range that is a 70 mi. round trip. I only go during the week since I'm retired. Very seldom are there more than one or two other shooters there at the same time. I am happy to say that I have never observed behavior such as I have read about in this thread.

[waksupi]

gunshow reloads?? That is the scary part of this entire story.

That's what I thought, too. You should have to post a sign if you are going to shoot those on a public range.

[TangoDownPro]

Actually it's not that uncommon for a primer to be "stuck" in the LPG. I've had it happen with some gunshow reloads. Only happened a couple of times, but if you don't have any tooling available it will ruin a day at the range. As far as not clearing the AR prior to manipulating the gun to rid it of the primer, yikes!!

Never buy/shoot gun show reloads. That's just a disaster waiting to happin IMO. I trust no one else's reloads but my own...period.

[giddyupgo55]

Saw a kid once who put dirt in his glock, then shoot said gun, just to show how good it was. I just turned and walked away.

[Bucking the Tiger]

These poor misguided souls. Too many of them's understanding of firearms are heavily affected by TV, video games, movies, and ads from manufactures. Experience would sharpen their views, if they really tried. It is sad that the foolish feel so deadly when holding their guns, not realizing they are dangerous;to themselves and others.

[mdi]

OK, a lot of folks calling the fellers with the AR stupid, dangerous, etc. But, the muzzle was pointed in the air and he was trying to clear the gun. What was he supposed to do? Should he have left the range and take his gun to a gunsmith? or was he supposed to toss the gun away from the firing line, go call a gunsmith to come fix his gun? I'm usually a pretty safe shooter, and I think I would have done the same; point the gun in a safe direction, and tried to clear the weapon. Would there be a safer tactic? Mebbe carry the gun around looking for a range master?

[alamogunr]

Saw a kid once who put dirt in his glock, then shoot said gun, just to show how good it was. I just turned and walked away.

He didn't have to do that. Plenty of others have done it and then written about it.

[DHurtig]

Some years back, I was at the local shooting area on BLM land. There are 2 benches at 100yds, one at 200 and one at 300. I was shooting from the right hand bench and a guy about 60 pulled up with a boy and girl the were about 17 or 18. I went about my business and they theirs. After a bit I heard a gun shot behind me. I looked to my left and the boy was gone. Looked behind me and he was at the 200 yard bench. I got the attention of the guy to my left and asked " Did he just send a bullet past us?" Guy says" Yeah, why?" I said, "If he sends a bullet past me again, it's gonna take a podiatrist and a proctologist to get my boot out of his a$$." He waved the boy back and they spoke quickly in hushed tones, then quickly packed their things and left. It still gives me the chills thinking about how bad that could have been.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The point is,,, if the guy had been trained just a little on how to operate his gun he would have known how to clear it and after a few attempts he would have probably quit because he would have understood something was drastically wrong.

Things like this get taught in schools. nobody is born with this info you have to go out and find it.

My biggest problem is with those who don't look.

Randy

[dtknowles]

Some years back, I was at the local shooting area on BLM land. There are 2 benches at 100yds, one at 200 and one at 300. I was shooting from the right hand bench and a guy about 60 pulled up with a boy and girl the were about 17 or 18. I went about my business and they theirs. After a bit I heard a gun shot behind me. I looked to my left and the boy was gone. Looked behind me and he was at the 200 yard bench.

There is a fundamental problem with that range design and that "accident" was going to happen and will be repeated. The benches need to be on a line and targets/berms need to be moved.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I am not a big "lets have some new laws" kind of guy, however when it comes to common military battle rifles, it would be nice if it was manditory that when you bought the gun you also bought a class to learn how to use it safely and efficiently. That class needs to be about 4 days long too,a s nobody is going to get this stuff in an afternoon!

Randy

This post has been out here for days and nobody commented? I have to guess that because your post was so long not many people read this part. I think that this would be a very bad idea. As if we are not enough of a nanny state already.

Tim

[leeggen]

This is why I have my own private range on 100 ac. Used by only my familly and qualified friends. Never liked the idea of going to a public gun range and haven't.
CD

[Jim]

This is why I have my own private range on 100 ac. Used by only my familly and qualified friends. Never liked the idea of going to a public gun range and haven't.
CD

I hear ya', brother! All I have room for is a 50 yard range, but it's on MY property and NOBODY shoots on it but me and Janet.

[smokeywolf]

Somehow people getting into the hobby of shooting or the practice of carrying for self defense should be encouraged to take a class. If mandatory classes at time of purchase is seen as infringement to gun ownership, perhaps classes should be required and offered by the ranges; at least the public ranges.

There are too many idiots out there and those idiots keep making more idiots. Need an example? Even if you don't count the fraudulent votes that were turned in for BH0 there were still a lot of people who voted for the Kenyan.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim: I agree about the nanny state issue however you have to take a class in order to get your Drivers license.

Here's the deal. I am 63 years old and have owned guns and shot frequently for my entire life since my first gun at age 12. However when I went to my first classs at Front Sight I immediately found out I didn't know squat. I finished at #39 out of 40! and the only person I beat was the woman who had never shot a gun in her life and that I was coaching!

I did not know,,,that I did not know. I thought I knew,,, but found out quickly that I was full of ship!

Luckily I am not completely stupid. I decided to learn what I previously had thought I already knew.

I have been to 8, 4 day Pistol classes, One 4 day tactical scenarios class, and 3, 4 day rifle classes. That's 48, 8 hour days (384 hours) of training.

I am "somewhat" competant. Not good by any means, but competant, meaning I problably won't shoot myself or others close by. But I can run all of my guns proficiently, and safely, simply because I have been taught how ,,, and drilled until I actually could!

You can't do that easily by yourself. You need teachers and the range setting where you can practice under the direct supervision of experts in the field. Then you can become competant.

Here's the bad news,,,, I am better than 98% of the people with guns out there. This is not a testament to how good I am,,, it is a testament on how BAD they are.

They are "that bad" for one simple reason. They have not been taught how to use their weapons effectively.

I see it every month at the local IDPA shoot where the police don't come anymore because they are embarrassed. They have been taught, but won't practice! How reassuring is that?

I see it at our 600 yard range where the SWAT guys show up and can't hit a 3 foot square gong at 600 yards with $8,000 rifles, and I can hit the same gong every single shot with a $800 rifle. Believe me when I say,,, "I'm not that good." They are just much worse. They have continuous training but they obviously don't understand what they are being taught, as none of them hit the gong with around 50 shots being fired from the group.

One of them told me that he didn't expect to ever shoot anyone at over 70 yards! I thought to myself, "that's a good thing, cuz you probably couldn't connect beyond 100."

Point of all of this story telling is the fact that no one on this planet is born knowing how to do anything. You have to be taught everything. That's why your parents are around until you're 18, and they send you to school everyday!

Randy

[dtknowles]

Tim: I agree about the nanny state issue however you have to take a class in order to get your Drivers license.

A bunch of stuff cut out.

Point of all of this story telling is the fact that no one on this planet is born knowing how to do anything. You have to be taught everything. That's why your parents are around until you're 18, and they send you to school everyday!

Randy

Randy

I can tell from your tone you mean well. I actually don't think you have to take a class to get your drivers license but most people do.

You can make people take a class but that does not mean they will learn anything.

Yes, there are way too many bad, evil, stupid, dangerous shooters and people with guns but having a law to make them take a class before they can buy a certain kind of gun is just not going to fix anything. It would make a lot of money for the trainers......

Having someone demonstrate their ability before granting them a license is something I understand and agree with. I am not ready to require someone to get a license just to by a gun.

If I owned a range you bet you would be required to demonstrate your ability and attitude before you could shoot at my range, it is not about laws it is about attitude.

Tim