Who makes bthp molds?

[Bandit86]

I have a browning blr in a 450 marlin, the magazine allows for pointy .458 bullets, but nobody seems to have pointy to aerodynamic boat tail molds. Ideas? I would like one in a 240 grain .312 as well

[Doc Highwall]

Nobody makes boat tail bullet moulds. They do make moulds with a bevel base but that is it.

[Bullshop]

NEI made a couple BT designs.

[Jeffrey]

Get a spire point and seat it backwards: instant boat tail wide flat nose. Joking, couldn't resist, sorry. Although I have a good number of 30 cal 147gr fmj condoms. Always wondered what kind of a varmint bullet they would make seated backwards.

[MT Gianni]

BTHP give less stability than the flat base boolits do with the pressures used with cast. Spire points lack the bore riding contact surfaces and can slump. The wheel can be reinvented but getting j word type profiles to work with cast @ cast pressures might equal a class in futility.

[Bandit86]

BTHP give less stability than the flat base boolits do with the pressures used with cast. Spire points lack the bore riding contact surfaces and can slump. The wheel can be reinvented but getting j word type profiles to work with cast @ cast pressures might equal a class in futility.

I saw NEI had a 675 grain .458 mould. Interesting looking

[btroj]

If you think a HPBT is going to Improve downrange ballistics on a 450 Marlin then you need to do some reading up on ballistics.

[Bandit86]

If you think a HPBT is going to Improve downrange ballistics on a 450 Marlin then you need to do some reading up on ballistics.

Such as?

[btroj]

Using the ballistic calculator on Hornady.com I get the following results.
A 400 gr bullet at 2000 fps sighted dead on at 100 yards
BC of .3 makes it 9.8 inches low at 200 yards
BC of .5 makes it 8.7 inches low at 200 yards

I can bet the BC increase you can get in a BTHP configuration in .458 diameter won't be that large.

The BTHP will likely be enough longer to take up powder space in the case reducing velocity some. I will also have a BT which will make it harder to shoot at those speeds without leading. It also isn't going to work with a gas check unless you intend to make a full body GC which means you now have a jacketed bullet.

Reality kinda sucks, doesn't it? I know this stuff because I asked similar questions of myself years ago. There isn't a way to make a 45 cal rifle flat shooting. Just isn't gonna happen.

What you have is a sort range hammer. Use it as such. Inside of 200 yards it will kill anything needing killing.

[Bullshop]

""Reality kinda sucks, doesn't it? I know this stuff because I asked similar questions of myself years ago. There isn't a way to make a 45 cal rifle flat shooting. Just isn't gonna happen. ""
Why not? They do it with a 50 so why not a 45?

[btroj]

A 50 with cast? And a bullet still short enough to reasonably fit in a 450 Marlin case and still feed thru the action?

In a single shot I could see it, in a repeater, nope.

Reality is hard to get away from

[MtGun44]

To get a reasonably effiecient aero shape in .45 Cal is going to take 500 and greater
weight and will not fit through any repeater action due to LOA.

You CAN make a .45 cal highly aerodynamic long range cartridge - just drive that
500+ gr aero bullet/boolit at about 3000 fps. . . . Call me when your shoulder
heals up.

Small changes in aero and still running at 1850 fps is not going to make a
flat or even very noticably flatter shooter.

Look at the pointy bullets that Hornady has with plastic tips. Get a few
of these and a few flat points and launch at the same velocity and see
where they hit at 100, 200 and 300. By about 300 it should be getting
so the drop diff is larger than the group size.

I used to think about this stuff, too. Engineering mind - going to solve
the problem - I now shoot a .22 -250 for flat, .45 - 70 is fine out to
200, then get a different cartridge, unless you are playing games -
not a condemnation - I love shooting games, but they are not the
same as hunting. You can adjust the sights for 12 ft of drop at long
range, as long as the range is fixed, like in a game - bullseye or
sillywet, for example.

Another research project: Look at what the drop difference between
a 55gr FB .224 bullet at 3600 fps is compared to a 55gr BT .224 bullet
at 3600 fps - even at 300 yds it isn't squat.

Bill

[Whiterabbit]

I saw NEI had a 675 grain .458 mould. Interesting looking

It's awesome.



Given that people shoot the BPCR design to 1000 yards, why would you want a BTHP as opposed to a BPCR bullet?

[Whiterabbit]

Dumb question. Scopes have adjuster knobs, even irons can be found with folding leaves or long range adjustments. Why do I care if I am chucking pumpkins or shooting a laser beam? All I care about ballistically is do I have the right design to be accurate at the distance I want to shoot. (and enough knock down if I want to do more than just put a hole in paper)

IF people shoot 1000 yard competition with BPCR bullets in a 45/70 I can not IMAGINE an application you want to seriously pursue with your marlin that could not be accomplished using the same bullets.

Maybe without the same conditions (everyone else seems to think you want a flat shooter, I won't make that assumption), but the same results. Gravity can be compensated for easy. It's everything else that is hard!

[Wadestep]

IF people shoot 1000 yard competition with BPCR bullets in a 45/70 I can not IMAGINE an application you want to seriously pursue with your marlin that could not be accomplished using the same bullets.

I can name one - hunting. The flatter the trajectory, the less accuratly you need to know the range. Also, the faster the projectile, the less wind drift (everything else being equal). Competition/plinking is one thing, hunting another altogether.

[Harter66]

How about a 400 gr Money boolit? Move it up to 450 and hp.

The ''trouble'' w/pointy boolits is that they slump ,when they're hard enough and launched gently enough not to slump, they pencil through or break-up too shallow. Not that a 45 leaves a small hole.

[Andrew Mason]

go to the section on gas checks,
there is a guy in there making boat tail gas checks.

[Whiterabbit]

I can name one - hunting. The flatter the trajectory, the less accuratly you need to know the range. Also, the faster the projectile, the less wind drift (everything else being equal). Competition/plinking is one thing, hunting another altogether.

I believe Mtgun44 already addressed this.

-------------------

IMO OP, what you need is a BPCR bullet. Lots to choose from, but I would make it a flat nose rather than a pointy. That let's you get more case space to cram more powder in there.

I truly honestly recommend the LEE 45/70 bullet that is the RNFP/GC. It's 500 grains, cheap mold, and the bullet is awesome. In my pic above, the middle bullet is a 540 grain Hoch nose pour, and if you insist on spending lots of money on a mold, I like that bullet even better. Plain base, and it shoots. Lots of lube groove space and it DOES have a meplat >0 so you can still seat/lubrisize (if you want) abuse the bullet and you don't deform noses. Doesn't slump. Expensive mold, but great bullet.

People say large meplat kills, but man, when the bullet is 540 grains and bigger than .45" I can't imagine it matters!

[turbo1889]

Yes, the boat tailed gas check idea is about the best I have seen for putting a boat tail on a cast lead boolit and and actually having a chance of it working. Although I was by no means the first person to come up with the idea I did make a small .gif image in MSpaint to illustrate the basic idea:




No I haven't made any myself or actually tested out the idea but others have done so. Usually using a lathe to turn them from brass rod stock.


As to the possibility of making a highly aerodynamic long range load for a 45-caliber rifle. Well my woman who has had a bad case of Magnum-itis ever since she was a teenager owns, shoots, loads for, and casts for a 460-Steyr as she has mentioned several times on this forum. For her long range aerodynamic loads she uses copper solids she mail orders from a company out of South Africa and they are like 500+ grains and really long and pointy and you could just about prick your finger on their tips. For cast she has a custom mold she had made by a BPCR custom mold maker make for her that is almost 700 grains and is a short but pointy tip on top of a bore rider design with a gas checked base and she cast them from really hard alloy that has some babbit alloy that contains copper mixed into it. She also loads regular 45-cal rifle boolits designed for lesser cartridges in it at substantially reduced loads with a filler.

So yes it can be done but personally 45-70 loads at full level-3 load pressures is more then enough for my needs.

[Whiterabbit]

Well my woman who has had a bad case of Magnum-itis ever since she was a teenager owns, shoots, loads for, and casts for a 460-Steyr as she has mentioned several times on this forum. For her long range aerodynamic loads she uses copper solids she mail orders from a company out of South Africa and they are like 500+ grains and really long and pointy and you could just about prick your finger on their tips. For cast she has a custom mold she had made by a BPCR custom mold maker make for her that is almost 700 grains and is a short but pointy tip on top of a bore rider design with a gas checked base and she cast them from really hard alloy that has some babbit alloy that contains copper mixed into it. .

Hi Turbo,

Does your wife have a sister?