XRF Microscope Test

[oldsman71]

I'm new to casting, and fortunate enough to have an X-Ray Fluorescents Microscope where I work. For those that aren't familiar with this, it's basically a machine you stick things in, and it will give you a graph with percentages of what they are made of. So I took one of my ingots I made out of a bucket of WW's, and it told me it was 97% lead and 3% tin. Is this a good mix for pistol bullets? I'll be making .45acp, .44mag, .40sw, .380acp, and possibly .45-70 rifle. Thanks in advance for any help!!

[40Super]

There should be some antimony in it as well whether 1% or 3% it should be in there. Does it look for all parts or just what you tell it to look for? There might be some Bi also.

[oldsman71]

It looks for everything that's in it's database. Possibly that's not in there. We tested an ingot I made with the solder paste I use at work, which is 63% tin, 37% lead. Took two different readings. The first said it was 57/43, and the second was almost right where it
was supposed to be, so it's apparently not always spot-on.

[KYCaster]

I'm curious about the origin of your ingot.

While surely not impossible, it would be quite unusual to find that alloy without at least traces of other elements. Your ingot is very close to 30:1 Pb/Sn which is a fairly common BPCR alloy, but I'd be surprised to see that result in an ingot rendered form scrap.

Like 40Super, I'd expect to see other elements such as Ag, As, Bi, Ca, Cu, S, Sb, Zn and others. Most lead scrap, even Stick On WW, roof flashing and .22 RF boolits that most casters consider pure for alloying purposes contain some Sb, usually 2-5%.

Other XFR users have reported widely varying results. It would be nice to see a direct comparison to other methods of analysis to see what we can expect from these machines.

Jerry

BTW........Welcome to Cast Boolits.

[hickfu]

Hey can you test for forum members?
I just wanted to know if this stuff I have has 1.6% zinc in it.

Doc

[oldsman71]

Thanks for the welcome, Jerry! I just melted down another bunch of WW tonight, and I'll take one of the ingots into work next week to have it analyzed, along with the first one again for comparison. It could be that if a certain element isn't prolific enough in the mix, the x-ray just doesn't pick it up. In the meantime, back to my original question. Will that mix be ok for the above mentioned calibers?

[oldsman71]

Hey Doc!! I love that guy, lol. I'm a big wild west buff. Anyways, no, I cannot test for forum members. I'm pretty sure my workplace would frown on that.

[GLL]

oldsman71:

First, welcome to the Forum !

I am curious about the instrument you are using ! Is it actually a small hand-held device or something about the size of a large refrigerator ?



Jerry

[Frank46]

Our company had a full on lab that tested just about everything they they either bought or contracted out for. Used to get the occasional bar or two of solder. Course this was many years ago. Use to drill holes in the bar and test it to make sure it was what they paid for. At the tank farm where I worked we had our own sulfur analyzer to detirmine the % of sulphur in it as we were required to burn low sulpher oil. Had a helium purge in the system. Had a lot of fun with that. ever take a hit and talk to someone?, sound like the chipmonks. Must have damaged a few brain cells. Frank

[hickfu]

Hey Doc!! I love that guy, lol. I'm a big wild west buff. Anyways, no, I cannot test for forum members. I'm pretty sure my workplace would frown on that.

Well ya cant blame me for trying!!!

Doc

[KYCaster]

30:1 alloy is usable in the cartridges you list, but certainly not ideal for the higher pressure loads in 40S&W and 44Mag.

Except for the 45-70, WW would probably work quite a bit better for your applications than 30:1.

If your ingots are from recently manufactured WW, I would expect to see something like .5% Sn and 2.5% Sb.

Jerry

[40Super]

Yep, you will need to add some antimony(ideally) maybe 2%-3%, for a better 44mag and 40s&w alloy. It would be usable in the 45-70 also.
It will be fine in 45acp as is and most likely the 380(though it may be included in the above alloy). Me personally, I would just make sure to balance the SB and SN and use the alloy for all.

[oldsman71]

Thanks for all the help. This stuff is somewhat overwhelming right now. So what Brinell hardness am I looking for to use in .44mag and .40sw?

[oldsman71]

Jerry, our machine is about half the size of a fridge.

[40Super]

13-16bhn range, can go lower and higher but the middle is good. More than going strickly for bhn, fit the bullet to your bores and bhn isn't as big a deal.

[oldsman71]

Ok, my next questions are, where do I get antimony, and can I just drop the measured amount into my lead pot?

[Defcon-One]

Linotype is your easiest bet as it contains 84% Lead, 12% Antimony and 4% Tin. It will raise your Tin % as well, so if you need to bump up only the Antimony content then your best bet is Rotometals Superhard which is only Lead and 30% Antimony. (See there link above.)

It is not cheap, but you won't need a whole lot, depending on how much lead you need to bump up.

It would be very hard to ad straight Antimony to your pot, even if you could find it! The melting temps are too diverse. You need a Lead/Antimony alloy!

Note: Clip-on Wheel Weight lead should have less Tin than your alloy, maybe 0.3-0.5%, and at least 2-3% Antimony. I would check to see if your machine is set up right BEFORE modifying your alloy!

[Caliboose]

How much of that wheel weight 97/3 % do you have?

Caliboose