Heavy lead in the .41 magnum.

[Good Cheer]

Initial testing of the goofy heavy 295 grain named The Rivet.


The Rivet with 14.5 grains AA9.

[Falsemuzzle]

What's the o.a.l. of those monsters?

[littlejack]

That's quite a big chunk of lead, but I believe that it would actually be shorter than my NEI boolit, if they were the same weight. This would be from NOT having any "ogive" to your boolit, and or truncated cone.
My NEI boolit has a tc, that would have to make the boolit longer for the same weight as yours. BUT, my boolit is supposed to drop at 275 grains, so it is actually a lighter design than yours even though it dropped at 299 grains with my alloy.
Regards
Jack

[GLynn41]

wow I am impressed-- how do they group--mv?

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
I finally found some H-110 powder a couple days ago, so today I started the R&D reloading of the heavy 300 grain NEI/SSK
boolits.
I loaded a total of 59 rounds, because that was the number of cases that I had in one lot that was used the least. Probably reloaded 2-3 times.
I decided to use my Little Dandy powder measure, as that way I could just change the rotors to get different powder weights.
Let me start with the fact that the boolit seats into the case .500 to the crimp groove. Now that is a nice round figure. I like nice round figures. That makes my mathematics a whole lot easier.
I started with #17 rotor, which dropped 16.2 grains of my lot of H-110. This was with WW cases, and the amount of case capacity left for boolit seating was .550.This made an air space of .050. I told you that it made my math easy.

Next lot of loads was with R-P cases.
I used #18 rotor, which dropped 17.2 grains of my H-110. Available room for seating the boolit was .525. Still not compressed, but close.

Next was rotor #19, that dropped a charge weight of 18 grains even. Avalable case left for seating boolit, .500? This allowed the boolit to just set down on the powder charge, but without compressing.

The last load was with R-P cases also, and the #20 rotor. This dropped a charge of 18.7 grains of the H-110. The case space left over for seating boolit was .485. That gives the powder .015 compression.

When using the LD powder measure, the powder charges should always be checked with a powder scale. According to my scale, the lot of H110 that I had, was not weighing the same as the powder chart listed for the LD powder measure.
Tomorrow, I have RSO duty at the gun club. There will be time to get in some shooting and find out just what my Smith likes, and doesn't like about the loads. At this point, I am just looking to find out what will be a good charge of H-110 for pressure, accuracy and control. I will load and shoot on another day, and Chrony the loads that I decide on.
I will post a range update on these loads after I get this ammo tested.
Regards
Jack

[GLynn41]

JD Jones give 19 grains of H110 with the bullet at 275 gr hard cast-- mine ran about 286 or so up to 295 -- I was shooting smiths and a DWA - settles on 17.5-18 gr and that shot very well -- I tried up to 19.5 in the DWA but chrony said no real gain -- muz vel from my Pact was 1300 in an 8 3/8 S%W - the DWA shot most of them

[jonp]

WOW! A 296gr wadcutter!! Holy Smokes.

[9.3X62AL]

The only problem it gave me was in my Bisley the front sight was
too short.

255 grain Lee SWC had the same effect in my Blackhawk x 6.5". Accurate, but went high in comparison to 210 grain sight settings.

[littlejack]

Hey to ya fellas:
Well, I did get to shoot the heavies at the range yesterday, in between RSO'ing. What a hand full of raw .41 power.
First, I would like to get some clarification. The NEI mold, is stamped with the SSK letters, and the numbers 411-275.
I just read an article wrote by Glen Fryxell, headed (The bullets of SSK) The short .41 section is started with a picture of this SSK boolit loaded in a .41 magnum case, one cast and lubed, and the last boolit as cast. Behind the photo, is written.
(NEI #225B, a PB variation on the .411-300 GC theme.
Now, with my mold stamped .411-275, I am wondering if it is miss stamped? The #275, is supposed to be the GC version. My mold is a plain base version. Can any one give some clarification on this?
Now, for the range update.
First, I will have to say that my eyes are a lot worse than I thought. I done my shooting at 25 yards, and the groups were nothing to jump up and down about. I fired my first rounds with the 16.2 grain load of H-110. No hole. I stepped down to the 12.5 yard line and fired three shots. They all went way high, which was to be expected. I stepped back to the 25 yard line, cranked the rear sight as far down as it would go, and started firing again. Wa-La, boolit holes in the paper. With this lite load, the poi was 6" above the poa. The group, was 2.5" ctc.
Next was the 17.2 grain powder charge. The poi was 5" above the poa. I fired two groups, and they were both at 3" ctc.
The next load was with an even 18 grains of H-110. The poi was 3.5" above the poa. I fired a 15 round group, with a ctc spread of 3.5" for 13, and two called fliers.
The last load was the 18.7 grains. I fired 8 shots, and the group was 7.5" ctc. I don't know if it was the load, or maybe fatigue on my part, or my bad eye sight.
When I started my shooting session with the 16.2 grains, I had flattened primers from the beginning. NOTE: I use WLP primers, and they have a tendency to flatten very easily IMO. They are a soft primer, and I do not take much store in reading them as a "high pressure" indicator.
All of the cases ejected very easily. I mean that even with the 18.7 grain load, just tip the barrel up, and push the ejector rod down. The cases fell out.
I am going to do some more testing, but I did like the 18 grain load. I plan on either buying, or making me one of those diopter things to look through, to improve my shooting. I want to get rid of the factory RED insert on my front site, and replace it with a BLACK one.
I will chrony my loads on my next session, and give a velocity for these big slugs. I am thinking around 1150 to 1200 fps with the 18 grain loads.
These big slugs were a lot of fun to shoot, but I do understand why a prolonged diet of them would be rough on a handgun that wasn't originally built for one, (Smith&Wesson 57).
I do thank you all for your input and replies on this thread. If you have any advice or experience, lets hear it.
OH yea, how about those gizmos we need to look through when our eyes go bad. Any one have any experience with one?
Jack

[Qc pistolero]

Wow!There must be SOME kick when you let go!

About those look through guizmos you inquire about,I've tried them and they work OK.But the real solution for me was when I had my wife measure the distance from my eye to the front sight of my revolver and transmitted the info to my oculist.I brought him an old pair of glasses and asked him to make me some lenses adjusting the focus to the measurement(only for the master eye;the other one I had sandblasted so that I cannot see through).Now,I see that front sight 100%.It improved my scores in a sensible way.

Qc Pistolero

[littlejack]

Qc, welcome to the CastBoolits sir.
Thank you for the information. I will definitely consider that. With that in mind, how fuzzy or blurred does your (special shooting glass) make the target? I guess it would be no more than if a person leaned their head waaaaayyyyyyy back with their bi-focals to see the front sight, eh?
To answer your first statement, YES, one definitely knows when one pulls the trigger. BUT, the greatest and best thing I like about the .41 magnum, is that even loaded with these top power rounds, it is still not nearly as bad as that .44 magnum. I mean that .429 magnum.
Regards
Jack

[GLynn41]

my SSK 275 is adouble cavity pb, my load was the 18 gr H110--wwlppI have not changed it since the 80s but i do shoot it only in the DWA -- my Redhawk is now a .410 GNR -- and i do to not want shoot it in my .41 Tracker

[littlejack]

Hey Glen:
My NEI/SSK mold is stamped the same as yours. I must assume (I know, that gets me into trouble) that the 275, is #275, being the particular mold "number" and NOT the dropped boolit weight, correct? Either that, or the 275 weight would be with straight linotype?
The GC design is listed to be a 300 grain version on NEI's chart, but as stated on my earlier post, my boolits drop at around 298-299 grain, with my alloy.
I did get leading with these heavy boolits, but this revolver has leaded with cast boolits, of any alloy/weight from the start. I am sure that after the bore starts to build up leading, and increases as shooting continues, this will have a direct and definite impact on accuracy.
I have just been living with it and scrubbing with the brass brush and "ChoreBoy" after my shooting sessions.
I think today, I will slug the bore again and take a crack at measuring the five groove with the wrapped feeler gauge method.
Jack

[littlejack]

Well, I just came in from slugging my Model 57. I used a .002 feeler gauge to wrap around the boolit. I then snugged the two dangling ends of the feeler gauge in a vice to free up my hands to use the micrometer. I used a Mitutoyo digital micrometer.
I tried different methods to measure the diameter, and settled on this method.
I would tension the mic to where it would just slide from one end of the boolit shank to the other, without any diagonal slack/slop.
I used one each of the NEI/SSK boolits for each of the measurements. These boolits sized, measured .411+ diameter. Last week, I checked each of the cylinder throat, by driving a boolit through each. They slugged .410+. So far so good.
I drove the first boolit all the way through the (CLEANED) barrel, and out the forcing cone. I measured this boolit eight times, turning the boolit 120*. The measurements were from .40920, to .41175, and anywhere in between.
The next boolit, I drove down the muzzle about .100 past the base of the boolit. I made me a puller from a wine bottle opener to pull the slug back out. I measured the boolit six times, turning 120* each measurement again. This boolit measured .40900 to .41155, and any where in between.
Now, if you subtract .002 x 2=.004 for the feeler gauge, that makes for a very small groove dimension, AND out of round.
I did measure the feeler gauge to make sure it was .002.
There should be no leading, right? Any thoughts? I would really like this revolver to stop leading.
Jack

[wyattjames]

the gizmo that you put on your glasses I know it as a merrit optical . E arthor brown carries them I use one for shooting sillywets. helps clear up the sights and the target by focusing the light entering the pupil.I am able to shoot without the aid of my glasses/bifocals ,

[GLynn41]

the 275 gr is the weight - but I do not know the alloy --I have one of the first artcles he wrote on it-- and he listed 19 gr H110 with a 275gr at 38,000 cup ? I will check -- and then I have an article where a 330 gr.44 was used to kill a buff from a modified .429 Redhawk at 1550 feet per second

[Good Cheer]

What's the o.a.l. of those monsters?

Right up to the front of the Ruger cylinder. I need to use some harder alloy to keep the diameter down and bullets in the cases under recoil.

[Groo]

Groo here
If you have access to some AA1680 try it.
90% load to the base.
This powder is very slow and seems to work on cast well.
As far as the sights, all heavy bullets will do this.

[littlejack]

Thanks for the info Groo.

[JSH]

Littlejack, fourarmed shoots iron sighted. I would be happy to shoot as well on one of his off days as I do on a good day. As to old eyes, he is one of the oldest teenagers I know.
Interesting thread. I started looking at the 41 mag after having backed off of a 375atomic idea.
Jeff