cast bullet question

[Ivantherussian03]

I am thinking about switching to cast bullets, mostly because they are a whole alot cheaper to buy, than jacketed bullets. But the lure better accuracy is getting me too.

I think I already know the answer to this, but I am going to ask.

Does the bullet design/shape have make much difference in accuracy?

[jonk]

Yes. For instance, the Lee 200 gr .309 has a fairly narrow nose and performs well in a gun with a fairly tight bore and long throat, i.e. a 308 with tighter lands such as the 7.5 Swiss (well in the long rifles and older carbines). On the other hand, it generally won't do so well in the K31 as the throat is much shorter. Some guns like round noses, some don't. Etc. You can make an educated guess but a lot is trial and error for your gun.

Most important is bore size. Slug your bore; size the bullet 1/1000 over, i.e. 309 for a 308 bore. If you can chamber a 310 or 311, try that as well. Bullet weight matters too; matching twist rate and bullet weight will yield better accuracy.

[arkypete]

It's my experience, that bullets closer in shape to the traditional round nose work better. The more of the bullet supported by the barrel the better the accuracy.
Now I'll admit that findingthe accurate load for the round nose bullets is easier and faster, so I've not spent much time developing loads for the spitzer shape.
Jim

[Char-Gar]

The fit of the bullet to the barrel grooves and lands is the prime (but not only) factor in accuracy. The design and shape of the bullet plays a key factor in the fit of the bullets.

So, the answer to your question is yes. But that "yes" must be understood in how the shape/ design plays into the bullet fit.

There there is the issue of "external ballistics" and how the bullet reacts to it's environment once it leave the barrel. This down range activity will also have an effect on accuracy at different ranges.

[45 2.1]

Does the bullet design/shape have make much difference in accuracy?

Yes it does. In so far as it will fit the cartridge chamber neck, throat and bore. If it doesn't fit these areas, it will not get started into the barrel straight. Getting the boolit straight into the barrel consistently is not as simple and easy as it would seem, because it doesn't happen much....!!!

[Ricochet]

Yes. For instance, the Lee 200 gr .309 has a fairly narrow nose and performs well in a gun with a fairly tight bore and long throat, i.e. a 308 with tighter lands such as the 7.5 Swiss (well in the long rifles and older carbines). On the other hand, it generally won't do so well in the K31 as the throat is much shorter.

So why's that a problem with the K-31 and that particular bullet? Actually I'd picked out that bullet as a likely ideal bullet for my K-31 on hearing that they tended to cast small bore riders in the .298" range, which would easily seat into the .296" lands of my K-31, and the groove diameter body of that bullet is short (same length as all the other bullets of that series) so it can easily be seated deeply enough to work with the short (that is, nonexistant) throat while not extending deeply into the cartridge case as most heavy bullets do. I was disappointed when my new two-cavity mould produced bullets with a slightly ovalized bore rider diameter of .302" x .304", a rather tight fit in any standard .30 caliber and a very tight one in my K-31. I feared I might not be able to chamber cartridges at all with these because of the fat noses, but found that with a very determined slam of the bolt they would generally function well, sometimes taking a second or third slap of the handle to lock the bolt, and gave good accuracy. I believe that if I'd gotten a mould with the original small nose that some of the members of this board have complained about, I'd be happy as a hog in mud with it for my K-31. As is, it's workable, and I think the bullet design with the short body and long slender bore rider is exactly what's called for with the K-31's throatless barrel. This is just an accidental case of the fatbulletitis I often fuss at some of our resident bullet designers for. Just right's just right, too much is too much, and bore riders can't easily be sized down.

[Ivantherussian03]

So how do I start loading cast bullets? I am not really interested in making them, just shooting them. I need to "slug" my bores, and start experimenting with different bullets, or make an educated guess about what might work well? Then experiment with the powder loads till I am happy with my shot groups? Is this logical or am I missing something?

[Char-Gar]

To get where you want to go...

1) Buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook... It will give you the basics of loading cast bullets.

2) Get in contact with Bullshop which is also in Alaska. He will hand cast just about any bullet and will size and lube them for you. You can buy them raw and lube and size them yourself, your choice.

That should get you going.

[Ricochet]

Yep. Good advice for starting. Sorry for the off-topic thread diversion.

[Ivantherussian03]

I just read the Lyman Guide to Reloading and Cast bullet. The information is good.

what else can I read to assist me?

[38-55]

Ivan,
Try richard lee's reloading manual 2nd edition. It has alot of interesting info on boolit casting. Another one that I found to be useful is george nonte's book 'basic handloading'. I don't know if it's still in print but it's a gem of a book and it's not really 'basic'. Hope this helps ya some. Best way to learn casting is to just jump in and do it. It's truly where art meets science.
Stay safe
Calvin

[Char-Gar]

Ivan... If you want to go deeper into cast bullets join the Cast Bullet assciation and when you join they will give you a copy of Joe Brennan's book on cast bullet. Joe is a regular poster here and his book is a valuable resource. The CAB also issues a quarterly publication "The Fouling Shot" which is good. The Cast Bullet Association has a web site you can Google up.

However, it is time for you to draw a deep breath and start "running ball". Casting is not as difficult as we sometimes make it seem. I started on my own with nothing but an antique Lyman loading book, a plumbers furnace ,a single cavity mold and a bottle of Barcardi rum. I had no other instructions or mentors and there was no internet. That was way back in the late 1950's.

Just be careful and don't drop a hot bullet down the tops of your boot..that makes for some one legged dancing while trying to pull the boot off the other foot. Funny to watch, but not fun to do.

Best of luck....

[4570guy]

Another reference that I recently read is E.H. Harrison's Cast Bullets handbook. This is an out-of-print NRA publication, but you can typically find used copies on abebooks.com for not a lot of money. Some of the information is dated and repetitious to what you see in the Lyman book, but I also gleaned some new nuggets of understanding from the Harrison book.

You say you don't want to cast them yourself -- heh-heh -- I think all of us on this forum made such a silly statement at one time Its an addictive hobby that's just as enjoyable as shooting.

[Pepe Ray]

OK, here goes.

NO , the shape of a boolet has nothing to do with accuracy.!!!!
It's all about fit. Dimensions can be the same on widely different shapes/types of boolets.
Shapes are important for many things. For example, I don't own a round nose nor a pointed boolet mold because I will use all my stuff for killing things. A large flat nose does it better. But they still must be fitted (SP) to the chamber and bore.
If you must shoot at long range you will be best served with a longer boolet that has been matched to the twist of your rifle.
Shur, there's lotsa fine points to argue about but these are cornerstones of what you must establish before you can be successful.

So! How's that for jumping in w/both feet??

[Three44s]

With regards to your question about books to buy and read ........ I would strongly suggest a book from Beartooth Bullets.

And you might consider them for a bullet source. Be prepared to a bit of a wait for your factory slugs from them however.

The Lyman cast book others have mentioned is a classic.

The Lee 2nd edition book is also important.

But the Beartooth book will hit buttons you have not even thought of.

Three 44s