Success w/ 30 Cal paper patch bullets

[PatMarlin]

Pat,

I will try ot get a copy scanned and off to your early next week. The book is ahrd to find and is now expensivve when you do find it. It is a 2 page artice on page 108-109 titled "Paper Patched bullets work in .300 Magnum:Test results prove cast bullets can approach 3000f.p.s. with fine accuracy"

Also antwo other articles one titled "paper patched bullets come of age" and the other "Paper Patching makes a difference". I will try to get them scanned and off to you. Or you can send me a pm and I can mail you some copies.

Wow- I didn't realize it referenced the 300 specificly. That's great.

[longbow]

FYI

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, third edition has a brief section on paper patching and mentions Colonel Harrison's work.

The article says good accuracy was obtained to 3000 FPS. For general purpose shooting to 2500 FPS alloy should be 12 to 15 BHN and 16 ro 20 BHN for higher velocities.

The handbook also lists loads for paper patched bullets of 160 and 200 gr. for .308 and .30-06 but oddly not 300 Winchester even though it is mentioned in the article. These loads are about equivalent to "J" bullet loads.

[pdawg_shooter]

I size to .301, wrap 2 times with 16lb green bar computer paper. Most any lube will work, even Chrisco, but at the moment Im using BAC from Whit Label Lube. Im using AA3100 in the RUM and AA2700 in the 06. After lubing and trimming the tail I run the bullets through a .309 Lee sizing die. Any questions e-mail me @ pdawg_shooter@hotmail.com.

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks, JCherry, for the added information. My sizing die is a nominal 0.299" for the .32 Long Colt. I'll have to see what I can do to try to get my castings to a slightly larger size.

[JCherry]

Bent Ramrod,

You might just want to try your bullets at the as cast diameter especially if you have a rifle with some wear of the throat. My mould throws the bullets at .303 and I'm sizing to .302 because thats what I have. I plan on gettng a .301 sizer some time in the future but indications I have so far look like .302 will work for this particular rifle.

Today I tried loads with Lee lube and other loads with Johnsons Past Wax with what appear to be equally good results. I just "tumble lubed" both types of lube on to the patched bullets and let dry and sized to .309.

Today was not the best of days as the wind was gusting up to about 30 MPH from directly behind me. The groups show great promise but hopefully the next day or so will be better weather wise. I had absolutely no indication of any leading with the two loads.

My paper patch covers the bullet from the base to the first groove from the tip.

Do you know how hard your bullets are? I got BAD leading when I used a too soft bullet (BHN 8) with little paper coverage of the bullet with only Lee Case Lube. I oven tempered to about 20-25 BHN and these seem to work much better.

What I'm seeing with my current combinations (Bullet hardness, type of paper, size of patched bullet etc.) is that Lee Case Lube alone does not work with what I'm doing now. It appears I need Liquid Alox or JPW to preclude leading. Other people apparently have better luck with Lee Case Lube alone. I do not know what variables cause this.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[pdawg_shooter]

You might want to try a Lovern style mould if you can find one. That is what I use most of the time and I patch past the top groove. Bullets with a long nose riding tip will lead if not cast hard. I have bumped up the nose riding section to bore dia. plus .001 and patched over it with good results. If you leave the nose under bore dia. the paper will not get sliced by the rifling and will not leave the bullet at the muzzle. That will destroy accuracy.

[Bent Ramrod]

JCherry,

I didn't check the hardness at the time, but they were cast of a mixture of commercial cast boolits and wheel weights, and water quenched. I'll check things more carefully the next time I run off a batch. I think my mould casts at least 0.308" and Harrison's article specified that his was 0.301" and patched up to diameter. I sized to try to get his original starting diameter, but I'll try them as-cast next time. Thanks again for the information.

[JCherry]

I took two paper patched loads to the range today. Of course the wind comes up any time I take these paper patched loads out. I was not so worried about accuracy as I was about the leading.

Load #1 was from some 301618 bullets cast a few weeks ago, sized .302. Their hardness was at least a SAECO hardness of 10 (BHN-20) though I did not check them, they had "aged" and may have been as hard as, I'm guessing, BHN of 25. The paper used was 3 wraps of Acadamie traceing paper. The leading edge of the patch was on the front of the ogive and the patched bullets were sized in a .309 sizer with L-Alox. After sizing they were tumble lubed again in L-Alox. As they were patched to the ogive it was necessary to seat them rather deeply so the base of the bullet was about .1" below the neck. I loaded them over 53.3 grains of WC-852 (Slow). The fit of the patched bullet was very tight into the throat.

Load #2 consisted of 301618 bullets sized to .302. I checked the fit of the unpatched bullet in my rifles throat using a Stoney Point Comparator. It appears my throat is a hair under .302 diameter, perhaps .3018 as I could push the bullet well into the throat beyond the mouth of the comparator case without using much force. The bore at the muzzle measures .301. I pushed another bullet into the throat being careful not to push its base beyond the mouth of the comparitor case and found I have light but definate engraving of the lands at a usable OAL.

These bullets were cast on 101207, oven heat treated to a hardness of a SAECO hardness of 10 (BHN-20). I checked the hardness on 101307. I patched these bullets, with two wraps of college ruled paper that when dry gave a finished diameter of .312. The leading edge of the patch was in the second groove from the front of the bullet. I sized these bullets in a .311 sizing die using Imperial sizing die wax.

I loaded them over 53.3 grains of WC-852 (Slow). The bullet was seated so the ogive just "kissed" the origin of the lands. The contact was very light but could be observed to be definately there under magnification. The leading edge of the patch of the loaded patched bullet was in definate contact with the throat as when withdrawn I could see markings made by the throat/forceing cone on it that indicated there was almost .25" of the patch in contact with the throat. The only lubricant was the Imperial wax used when they were sized.

I estimate velocity at 2500 - 2600 FPS for these loads based on load data for 4831.

I fired about 5 rounds of Load #2 and got some hits on a 8" plate set up at 100 yards. Then things went bad and there appeared to be a pretty good shotgun pattern going on. I checked the muzzle and saw a shiny ring of lead starting to form at the muzzle.

I starting shooting Load #1 and after about 2 rounds everything cleared up and I started getting hit after hit on the target.

From this little exercise it appears that I may need to let my bullets age harden at least three weeks. (I guess I should do a hardness check but they work so good I hate to pull them down to test them in my SAECO hardness tester. The L-Alox in Load #1 definately made a difference. I haven't been able to see just how accurate #1 is but the first calm day I'll definately take them out to see.

I plan on trying the patching and sizing dimensions listed for load #2 in a future load with L-Alox.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Digital Dan]

I know you haven't heard much out of me since I joined but this a subject I've a little experience with.

50 Yards, offhand. Ruger 77/44, 300 gr. .422" MPS boolit, RNFB pure lead. Loads are 4 years old, patched with 9# onion skin, 2 wraps. MV 1600 fps by Chrony.



15 yards, same load = dead pig. 22" penetration including shoulder, ribs, 3-4 vertebrae and assorted soft tissue. Retained weight 297 grains.



Couple of links on the subject, take 'em for what they're worth:

http://www.crater-outdoors.net/phpBB...hp?f=117&t=904 Scroll down to Chapter 10, the last of them. There is another link there to Brent Danielson's website, the Iowa State Edu. thing. He's all about paper patch and knows what he's about.

There is much to discuss on the subject and many, many different approaches. A couple of things to note: Success with paper patch comes easier if you work with the dimensions of your barrel. Slug it first so you know what you're about. Smokeless works with the lead at bore diameter or a wee bit more (.0005") and patched up to groove diameter. In most guns (modern smokeless)that means you need paper of about .0025" in thickness, or 9# onionskin. The paper needs to separate from the bullet with wrapped patches, leave the glue and teflon in the drawer. The patch needs to go past the ogive slightly to preclude leading. Do NOT use a rolled crimp. Taper crimp is cool. The patch need not be so long that you twist it at the base. It can simply be tucked under the edge of the base. Some people shoot their patches dry. It will wear the bore prematurely if you do so. DO NOT use glossy or colored paper. It contains kaolin as a pigment base and it is ABRASIVE! Onionskin, tracing paper, dress pattern paper, bond paper too. Even paper with cotton or linen content is ok. Thickness is a matter of industry standard and is reflected in the weight rating, such as 9#, 12#, or even 30#.

You may tread the well worn path on this art and enjoy in immensely, or you can set off on your own without a clue and meet mediocrity head on. Dispense with theory and get the facts fellas.

[Larry Gibson]

No I don't, where can I find those?

Both articles are in Cast Bullets. It is an NRA publication but I'm not sure it's still available. A check at the NRA site might show if it is. There also is a supplement to that book. If not I could scan the article if ManlyJT hasn't got it done.

Larry Gibson