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Thread: 21st Century Cast Bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    21st Century Cast Bullets

    It's been along time coming and they're still a little rough around the edges but, I'm almost there.

    A while back I figured out how to make up some Synthetic-Bullet-Tips for my hollow pointed cast bullets. It took a bit of work but I finally got them installed and functioning without any glitches.

    I then set about trying to make up some Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks. That too took a bit of doing but, I only recently got to where I could make these specialized Gas-Checks repeatedly and concentrically.

    My long range goal was to make a "Long Range" cast hunting bullet for my 30 caliber rifles. The combination of a cast bullet with a "Cup-Pointed" nose wearing a Synthetic-Tip and a Boat-Tailed Gas-Check seemed like a sound idea to me.

    Today I finally got some samples put together.

    Will they shoot??? Well, back when I was developing the Synthetic-Tips I tested enough of them that I can confidently say, YES; they will shoot.

    I have yet to try any bullets wearing these new Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks; or a combination of the Tips and the Checks. I've just been waiting to get some free time so that I can drive to the range. It's about thirty miles away as the crow flies.

    These cast bullets are what I would call 21st Century Cast Bullets. I'm hoping that by integrating the two main features of your average Boat-Tailed jacketed bullet, these specialty add-ons will enhance the ballistic coefficient enough to be close to competitive with their jacketed counter parts.

    I don't actually have a hollow pointed bullet mold for this specific cast bullet. I just couldn't resist turning/cutting the tips off of a few existing cast bullets, drilling a shallow cup point and installing the Synthetic-Tips. I just wanted to see what they'd look like.

    They looked just like I dreamed they'd look. Now I hope they'll shoot just like I dreamed they'd shoot.

    I thought I'd post a picture of them on this particular section of this forum because it seems to get many more views from more segments of the various interest groups of bullet casters. The full write up of my Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks is in another section of this forum; as is the write up of the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Update-Teaser

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ic-Bullet-Tips

    I hope you find them as interesting as I have.

    HollowPoint
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    Last edited by HollowPoint; 04-23-2013 at 04:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    dromia's Avatar
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    Would you please provide the links to the other two threads?


    For fine firearms and shooting requisites visit my Web Site by clicking the link below:

    Pukka Bundhooks

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Now that is cool. I'm very interested to see how those shoot.
    Test stuff for yourself, and come up with your own answer.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Very interesting!

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you gentlemen.

    I got a chance to load up about fifty rounds this morning. Initially I'll just be shooting them to see if they fly true. And if they do fly straight and true I'll be keeping an eye out for any Long-Range-Potential that any of the differing charge weights might indicate.

    In the past, with other projects I've had my bullets hit the target sideways. I've taken great pains to get these bullets
    to cast concentrically but, as many of you know, it's the tail end of our cast bullets that affects the accuracy or flight characteristics of our bullets more than anything else. Now, with a Boat-Tailed rear end I'm wanting to see if these specialized Gas-Checks are going to be Flight-Finicky or not.

    With these new Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks on them, who knows what will happen. I'm hoping that even a small error like installing them a hair off-center will not affect their flight down range to the point that they "Key-Hole" on me.

    In my minds-eye I can picture this type of installation error being corrected by the pressure created by the burning powder as it pushes the bullets down the barrel. I'm thinking that the copper checks will be forcibly crushed down onto the beveled lead tail of the cast bullet itself and thereby iron out any error in the install procedure.

    I've started with 16 grains of 2400 and in three grain increments, I've increased the charge weight all the way up to 18 grains. (five of each) Any left over bullets will be used initially for sighting in. (to make sure I'm hitting the paper)

    I'll post results once I've gotten some results.

    HollowPoint

  6. #6
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    Smitty's Retired's Avatar
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    I would not only like to see how they perform on targets at distance, but also how they expand in some type of medium. I.E. ballistic jell or even wet paper & cloth.
    One of the greatist delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.- Thomas Reed (1886)
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty's Retired View Post
    I would not only like to see how they perform on targets at distance, but also how they expand in some type of medium. I.E. ballistic jell or even wet paper & cloth.
    That makes five of us; so far.

    I tend to get ahead of myself with these projects so what I'm about to say has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    After I get these specialty cast bullets working the way I want, the next project I have waiting in the wings is a re-design of my "Soft-Pointing-Tool."

    In it's present configuration this "Soft-Pointing-Tool" allows me to cast soft-nosed bullets as quickly as I normally would when casting a typical cast lead bullet. There is no waiting for your alloys to soften or harden before moving on to the next step to a finished soft nose.

    I mention this because my main intent with these Synthetic-Tips and Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks is to make a viable Long-Range hunting bullet. Being able to cast these bullets with a soft nose to enhance expansion and a higher BHN at the belly so that I can push them a little faster; along with the Boat-Tails so as to enhance the range of these bullets; (in theory) when I do get around to test them on some kind of test medium they should work about as good as the first generation jacketed soft-points did.

    Bare with me as I go off topic a bit; in that "re-design," I'll be integrating some twelve-volt actuators instead of the thumb levers I'm using now.

    I developed my "Soft-Pointing-Tool" back when I first joined this forum. I've long since taken down all the images I'd posted as I did this project but the write up can be found here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...+Pointing+Tool

    Thanks for the replies. It's good to know that I'm not the only one interested in moving cast bullet designs into the 21st Century.

    HollowPoint
    Last edited by HollowPoint; 04-25-2013 at 09:51 AM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Well now, being a plain base type of guy, those BTGC's make gas checks worth looking into. I am holding my breath awaiting the range results! I should imagine that those things would be more forgiving of misalignment than square ones. I just happen to be having a problem with plain base deformation with paper patch boolits. Since I make mine so slow anyway, one extra step is no big deal and would make a lot of sense for use with knurled lubed boolits.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    One would think that since both the base of the cast bullet and the inside of the check are beveled with the same degree of taper, this Boat-Tailed Gas-Check would more or less self-center itself every time.

    As a concentricity test I'll roll the finished bullets on a flat surface and keep a close eye on the nose and then on the tail end of the bullets. The noses generally spin true unless I somehow bend the bullet during any part of my prepping process. On the tail end, I've found an occasional wobble as it's spinning across my flat surface.

    Provided that the beveled tail end of my lead casting is concentric, I'm thinking/hoping that these off-center Gas-Check installs will iron themselves out with the pressure that the powder blast imparts upon ignition.

    Time will tell.

    HollowPoint

  10. #10
    So, when do you go into production and start selling these like hotcakes??? Seriously though, I am very interested in your development of this idea and will watch with bated breath. I too am interested in getting more hunting-effective leg room than 150 yards out of my 308. This sort of thing is just the ticket, I think.

  11. #11
    Boolit Man
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    The addition of the plastic tip to a cast bullet will do wonders, for bc, more than the boattail in my opinion, At the ranges that a cast bullet will be used for hunting I don't know if I would worry with the boat tail or not, but hey, KUDOS to you for giving it a whirl.
    Please keep us updated with your test results.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Got to admit they look good

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    "So, when do you go into production and start selling these like hotcakes??? "

    I always cringe when I get questions like this regarding my projects. I generally work on ideas or projects for my own benefit and usage. I post them because I know that I'm not the only one who dreams of stuff like this; and I'm not the only one who likes to tinker around in their shop or garage.

    If by chance it does take off in acceptance or demand, so be it. I'm not really concerned about that right now.

    It's true that cast bullets of the Flat-Based Gas-Check configuration are generally used as short range hunting bullets; if they're used at all. I'm not sure what constitutes "Short Range" but, in my mind a "Long-Range" cast bullet would be a three to five-hundred yard range bullet; with good terminal ballistics at five-hundred yards to bring down a small deer with good shot placement.

    In all my searching, I've never seen of heard of anyone else doing any work with the intent of making a reliable, viable Long-Range cast lead Boat-Tailed Gas-Checked bullet. I figured it was time to try. If it doesn't work out I won't be to disappointed.

    Frankly, I think that the only way this project can fail is if I give up on it. I also think that the idea is to sound of an idea to give up on. Right now my inexperience as a machinist is the only thing hindering my progress. And the lack of free time to go shooting. I still have to work to pay bills and such. These projects are just a hobby for me. They keep me from going insane at times.

    Since giving up the bar scene, drinking and chasing women, I've had to find other creative outlets.

    HollowPoint

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Well, I followed your synthetic tip thread with interest because I had the same basic idea and not acted on it but you did! Good on you and nice results!

    I have also been following the boat tail gas check thread as well with some interest as well. Good to see you seem to have gotten that one beat more or less too. Shooting results will tell the tale and if I can make a suggestion, try to recover some boolits. Recovered boolits always have a story to tell.

    I am thinking several 1 gallon milk jugs of water and some relatively light loads. I have managed to catch boolits in a rag bag after they pass through several jugs of water. In fact I made a boolit expansion tester using baggies of water and a rag bag after but haven't got to testing the "tester".

    Anyway, if you can catch some without too much damage to the base/check you should see what happens when the pressure hits.

    It will be interesting to see what sort of accuracy you get and how they compare to similar design flat base boolits for trajectory.

    Good work and interesting threads. I am sure you are right that others have had similar thoughts and interests. Thanks for sharing your work.

    Longbow

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I have no problem with testing for accuracy and bullet drop at long distance. I do have difficulty testing for terminal ballistics or retrieving bullets after they've been shot.

    I mentioned before that my nearest shooting range is about thirty-miles away. To do any testing that involves how the bullets looks after they hit the target means I have to drive even farther to get to a remote enough area to do the shooting that's involved; not to mention toting a lot of stuff along with me.

    All of this is doable; it just takes long term planning. In the past when I've done terminal ballistics testing, I've done so by shooting my bullets into downed sahuaro cactus while I was out coyote hunting or just bumming around out in the desert. These downed cactus have ribs and water content close enough to living tissue. I just had to carve up that dead cactus to retrieve my bullets.

    You're talking more along the lines of formal testing. Right now I just don't have time for that but, I will get around to it eventually. I think once I've tested to see how they fly, it might give me more incentive to follow up with the terminal ballistics testing.

    Who knows how long that will be but, I've been wondering; after I get these bullets working the way I want, I might get in touch with this website's powers-that-be to see if it would be possible to auction off about 150 of these finished bullets; one set with copper Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks and the other with aluminum Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks. (and Synthetic Tips)

    I've never donated any funds for the upkeep of this sight before and however small or great the amount that such an auction might bring in would be donated.

    This way perhaps someone with the time and the inclination could do the necessary testing to find out some of the things you've listed above. This would allow a review of these specialty bullet to be done by an impartial judge. (assuming they went to an experienced reloader/tester/shooter kind of person)

    For the time being though; I'll be the one that will be doing any testing.

    Thanks for the reply. Good to hear from you again.

    HollowPoint
    Last edited by HollowPoint; 04-26-2013 at 06:36 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowPoint View Post
    It's been along time coming and they're still a little rough around the edges but, I'm almost there.

    A while back I figured out how to make up some Synthetic-Bullet-Tips for my hollow pointed cast bullets. It took a bit of work but I finally got them installed and functioning without any glitches.

    I then set about trying to make up some Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks. That too took a bit of doing but, I only recently got to where I could make these specialized Gas-Checks repeatedly and concentrically.

    My long range goal was to make a "Long Range" cast hunting bullet for my 30 caliber rifles. The combination of a cast bullet with a "Cup-Pointed" nose wearing a Synthetic-Tip and a Boat-Tailed Gas-Check seemed like a sound idea to me.

    Today I finally got some samples put together.

    Will they shoot??? Well, back when I was developing the Synthetic-Tips I tested enough of them that I can confidently say, YES; they will shoot.

    I have yet to try any bullets wearing these new Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks; or a combination of the Tips and the Checks. I've just been waiting to get some free time so that I can drive to the range. It's about thirty miles away as the crow flies.

    These cast bullets are what I would call 21st Century Cast Bullets. I'm hoping that by integrating the two main features of your average Boat-Tailed jacketed bullet, these specialty add-ons will enhance the ballistic coefficient enough to be close to competitive with their jacketed counter parts.

    I don't actually have a hollow pointed bullet mold for this specific cast bullet. I just couldn't resist turning/cutting the tips off of a few existing cast bullets, drilling a shallow cup point and installing the Synthetic-Tips. I just wanted to see what they'd look like.

    They looked just like I dreamed they'd look. Now I hope they'll shoot just like I dreamed they'd shoot.

    I thought I'd post a picture of them on this particular section of this forum because it seems to get many more views from more segments of the various interest groups of bullet casters. The full write up of my Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks is in another section of this forum; as is the write up of the Synthetic-Bullet-Tips.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Update-Teaser

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ic-Bullet-Tips

    I hope you find them as interesting as I have.

    HollowPoint

    This is the kind of work I love to see !
    Without this kind of passion we stay static, same old.
    I hope these perfrom as hoped, if not a little tweek here and there and the work continues.
    Great job !

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you oldpara:

    It's always good to be encouraged by fellow bullet casters.

    I hope I haven't thrown my own monkey-wrench into this project by posting similar threads in two different sections of this forum. I started with the "Teaser" thread in the Gas Checks section of this forum just to give everyone a heads-up on what I was working on. That particular thread isn't done yet. I plan to post my results on that specific thread once I have some preliminary results.

    I'd mentioned my wanting to try to build some dies to make up some Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks in various posts covering other subject matter on other threads. I speak of threads started by other members. This was years and month prior to actually taking the plunge and beginning this project.

    When I posted this particular thread in this Cast Bullets section, I did so with the intent of reaching more of our fellow bullet casters with this news. (the news about Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks and Synthetic-Tips)

    Because of our specific inerestes, we bullet casters tend to frequent certain sections of this forum more than others. As a result, we sometimes miss out on something that may be of interest or of use to us.

    Since these Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks and these Synthetic-Bullet-Tips add features found on more modern jacketed bullets, I thought that it now put our cast bullets more in line with bullets of the 21st Century; thus the title name, "21st Century Cast Bullets."

    Now I'm having to check both individual posts to keep up to date on any inquiries or replies on either one.

    Once I get some results I'll post them on the "Gas Check-Teaser" thread. I'll post a comment here steering anyone who's interested to go to the other post for updates. That way I can phase out this thread and I don't waste any more band width than necessary.

    HollowPoint
    Last edited by HollowPoint; 04-27-2013 at 01:52 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the heads up, I'll be reading with great interest.
    Good stuff !

  19. #19
    Boolit Master The Real Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    This has been a very interesting thread..... I think you should try some in .264 caliber!!!
    I think those would be really cool in the 6.5X57....


    Doc

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    What's up Doc:

    Baby steps. First and foremost, I want to make sure that I can get these 30 caliber checks working correctly on my cast bullets. To do this I've not only had to develop the Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks themselves but, it also required the building of a dedicated bullet mold that incorporated the beveled tail end to accept these checks.

    The smaller the diameter of the bullet we're working with, the more difficult it will be to form the Boat-Tailed Gas-Check. Once I get these present Boat-Tailed Gas-Checks working reliably, then I'll consider working on other calibers.

    Thanks for the input.

    HollowPoint

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check