Alliant Black MZ powder - Experiences?

[Charlie U.]

I'm getting back into muzzle loading after a few seasons of not having one.
(Used to hunt with a T/C greyhawk .50 and recently picked up a T/C .54 hawken)

Pyrodex is the powder I am most familiar with, but I am looking at my other options and would like to know what you think of Black MZ?
How does it compare to pyrodex as far as fouling and clean-up? What kind of performance did you get out of it? The cost per canister is just a few bucks more than that of pyrodex so I was considering giving it a go.

[johnson1942]

no experience with it but after looking at several articles on the internet this is what they said. wipe between shots, compress the powder, lean on the ramrod. good pressure curve from shot to shot, easy clean up and not affected by moisture in the air as much as others.

[Beerd]

2f Goex should work pretty well also.
..

[M Hicks]

I have never used Black MZ but recently switched from Pyrodex to Blackhorn 209. I use it in a T/C Impact, not a high-end front stuffer but it has been great to me. Clean-up is very easy and I use regular firearm cleaners to do it. That is what the manufacturer recommended. Fouling was very minimal. I have fired nine shots before cleaning. Loading was still easy on the ninth shot and I only cleaned it because it didn't feel traditionally right to fire so many times without doing it.

[johnson1942]

to m hicks, i hate to admit it too, but black horn 209 is really good, just as acurrate as black powder in the guns ive tried it in. im staying with back in all my side locks but my sons new inline is useing nothing but 209. the pressure curve is very consistant.

[M Hicks]

I am by all means a self admitted non-expert at muzzleloading. Some would even say that since mine is not a flint lock it isn't a muzzleloader. I am not ashamed to say that I use what works though and I enjoy shooting it. I have no real way of testing the pressure curve. At least I don't know how to. I don't have the traditional muzzleloader powder flask and other goodies. I used the info from Blackhorn's website to make sure I was using the correct volume of powder by weighing the charges listed on their website. I found that 90 grains by volume pushing a 250 grain .452 XTP wrapped in a Harvester sabot gives me a group just under an inch at 100 yards. I was pretty thrilled about that. Previously I was using the Pyrodex and Power Belt projectiles that grouped worse than a 12 ga. I thought it was the firearm but learned differently. The accuracy of the load combined with ease of cleaning using nothing special sold me on the stuff.

I have heard similar statements about Black MZ but have never tried it. Only because I heard more good things about 209.

[johnson1942]

ive used black horn 209 in my 1/18 twist .45 cal paperpatched gun. and how i get it to go off i use 10 grains of black in first then the 209 on top of that in my side lock. again i hate to admit it but the groups at 100 yards were just as good as all black groups. i will keep useing just black in that one but at leaste i know i have a back up powder that works. 209 is really good stuff.

[colonelhogan44]

I used pyrodex, but then I switched to Kik 2f from Powder Inc, and I will never go back. Cleanup is so easy, fouling is very minimal.

There's nothing like the real thing -- holy black is still the best choice.

[Beerd]

-- holy black is still the best choice.

True, but if he's already getting moa groups, why change?
..

[rodwha]

Is Black MZ a high output powder like Triple 7 or Blackhorn 209, or is it more like Pyrodex, giving similar results as standard BP?

Many state that there is nothing better than real BP, and I cannot comment on that, but I would give a more energetic version, such as Swiss, which I've tried to locate locally but can't, or even this new Olde Eynsford, which I understand to be similar to Swiss. I don't want to need to stock up on, nor carry, a couple of types/sizes of powder, and typical BP just doesn't have enough oomph for my cap n ball pistol, which is why I've bought 3F Triple 7. I am on the lookout for Olde Eynsford though as I'm ready to buy more powder.

Does MZ need to be duplexed in a cap lock? Blackhorn does, correct?

[colonelhogan44]

True, but if he's already getting moa groups, why change?
..

That was another person saying that Blackhorn 209 gave him MOA. The OP uses Pyrodex...

[dondiego]

Where are you located in Michigan Charlie?

[johnson1942]

the internet says black mz goes off as easy as black powder or pyrodox.

[Charlie U.]

Where are you located in Michigan Charlie?

about 30 miles west of Kalamazoo....just inland from South Haven.

The things I have read about Blackhorn 209 sound great, but it isn't as readily available in my local stores and it's noticeably more expensive than BP or pyrodex. Besides, my t/c hawken is not set up to use 209 primers.
I asked about Black MZ because I am interested in a clean burning substitute that doesn't contain the sulfur that BP and pyrodex have.

[M Hicks]

Didn't even think about your Hawken not being set up for 209 primers. Didn't mean to get it a little side tracked. From what I have hear, see read on the internet, Black MZ is a clean burning substitute. I do not personally know anyone that has used it. Give some a try and see how it works for you. It could be exactly what you are looking for.

[badgeredd]

about 30 miles west of Kalamazoo....just inland from South Haven.

The things I have read about Blackhorn 209 sound great, but it isn't as readily available in my local stores and it's noticeably more expensive than BP or pyrodex. Besides, my t/c hawken is not set up to use 209 primers.
I asked about Black MZ because I am interested in a clean burning substitute that doesn't contain the sulfur that BP and pyrodex have.

I am resurrecting this thread to see if anyone has actually TRIED Black MZ. Let's try to stay on topic which is Black MZ and its attributes. Thanks.

Edd

[GunSlingerNM]

I picked up a bottle of Alliant Black-MZ and really like the stuff so far. I have shot it mostly in my Ruger Old Army it has a lot of pep and cleans up easily. I started off using 18gr, 457 RB, 1/4 inch lubed wad, and CCI #11 caps and increased load from there.
Finally ended up on 30gr Black MZ, 457 RB, 1/8 inch lubed wad and CCI #11 or RWS 1075 Plus caps. ROA has Tresco nipples installed. Target distance was 25 meters. Mostly hitting POA a couple of fliers due to operator error.
Power is 2F or it looks that way. Bottle does not state size. It goes off easily and no misfires. Amount of smokes similar to Pyrodex maybe slightly less.

[Lefty Red]

Can't find it around here, but I use BH209 in my inline. Before that, I used TTT7 and really liked it over anything else except for true BP. But noone carries BP around here anymore, so I buy TTT7 off the shelf.

Lefty

[marquette]

I just bought my 2nd lb of Black MZ last night. I discovered it last year after being recommended to me by Toby Bridges when I was trying to get a T/C Tree hawk to shoot accuractly. The Tree Hawk has a 1;20 twist barrel wit standard #11 cap side lock ignition. 2F & 3F caused too much fouling for the sabots to load after 1 shot. Using MZ i can load 6-8 shots with a range rod with no loss in accuracy. 3-5 shots can easily be loaded with the ramrod on the gun. I really don't know about more than that because 3-5 covers hunting situations. It cleans easily with water based cleaners. I think i am using Simple Green mixed with windshield washer solvent to keep it from freezing. I am using 260 gr Harvester PT Gold bullets with Harvester crush rib sabots over 85 gr of MZ to produce a 3 in group at 100 yds with iron sights off thee bench. Last weekend i was able to do a little experimenting with 300 gr PT Golds over 100 gr of MZ. Impact seems to be the but will need more range time this weekend to be conclusive. I'm looking for a little more mass to try and reduce drop at 150 yds. I have had zero misfires using CCI and RWS #11 caps. Last deer season we had some weird weather with fog and light drizzle some days as compared to the normal cold and snow. I loaded the gun on Saturday morning and used it until Wednesday with out firing it. I obviously uncapped the gun when ever traveling from hunting spot to spot and at night time the gun stayed in the truck. On Wednesday I decided at lunch time that I better see if the gun would go off with all the moisture we had. It went off like i had just loaded it. Dead center on a paper plate at about 60 yds. The powder doesn't seem to draw any moisture. I have been black powder hunting since the mid 70's with Goex and I don't think it would have ever with stood the moisture. I didn't notice any difference in how the remainder of the lb I bought last year performed then compared to when I took it out this fall. So far as I can tell MZ meets every claim Alliant has made about it. I don't think it is as clean as Blackhorn but the low flash point for #11 caps makes up for that to me. Also as far as I can tell so far it is as un corrosive as they claim

[badgeredd]

I just bought my 2nd lb of Black MZ last night. I discovered it last year after being recommended to me by Toby Bridges when I was trying to get a T/C Tree hawk to shoot accuractly. The Tree Hawk has a 1;20 twist barrel wit standard #11 cap side lock ignition. 2F & 3F caused too much fouling for the sabots to load after 1 shot. Using MZ i can load 6-8 shots with a range rod with no loss in accuracy. 3-5 shots can easily be loaded with the ramrod on the gun. I really don't know about more than that because 3-5 covers hunting situations. It cleans easily with water based cleaners. I think i am using Simple Green mixed with windshield washer solvent to keep it from freezing. I am using 260 gr Harvester PT Gold bullets with Harvester crush rib sabots over 85 gr of MZ to produce a 3 in group at 100 yds with iron sights off thee bench. Last weekend i was able to do a little experimenting with 300 gr PT Golds over 100 gr of MZ. Impact seems to be the but will need more range time this weekend to be conclusive. I'm looking for a little more mass to try and reduce drop at 150 yds. I have had zero misfires using CCI and RWS #11 caps. Last deer season we had some weird weather with fog and light drizzle some days as compared to the normal cold and snow. I loaded the gun on Saturday morning and used it until Wednesday with out firing it. I obviously uncapped the gun when ever traveling from hunting spot to spot and at night time the gun stayed in the truck. On Wednesday I decided at lunch time that I better see if the gun would go off with all the moisture we had. It went off like i had just loaded it. Dead center on a paper plate at about 60 yds. The powder doesn't seem to draw any moisture. I have been black powder hunting since the mid 70's with Goex and I don't think it would have ever with stood the moisture. I didn't notice any difference in how the remainder of the lb I bought last year performed then compared to when I took it out this fall. So far as I can tell MZ meets every claim Alliant has made about it. I don't think it is as clean as Blackhorn but the low flash point for #11 caps makes up for that to me. Also as far as I can tell so far it is as un corrosive as they claim

That is some helpful information. Since the Blackhorn really needs 209 primers, I really wanted to know how the Alliant powder does with #11 caps. Thanks

Edd