"Real" Keith Bullets

[PJP]

LAH After talking with Walt Melanders son in law at NEI, bullets are probably as close as your going to get. If he does have them, he doesn't want to discuss them but I got the distinct impression that he literally threw out what Walt had that he thought was junk. I sent the masters to Walt in one of the velvet lined Smith and Wesson revolver gun boxes but I didn't even get to the point of asking him about the box due to what came across as total disinterest. If you do call him you could ask him about such a box and what was in it. He wasn't the least bit interested in talking about masters when I called. Paul

[9.3X62AL]

These texts and photos have been very instructive. I am interpreting the Protchko castings as being most faithful to Mr. Keith's design standards relative the the Lyman and RCBS interpretations, if I'm mistaken I hope someone corrects that conclusion. I don't mean to belabor minuteae either.

The Protchko 44 caliber bullet is very reminiscent of an old single cavity Lyman or Ideal #454424 that I have and use in my 45 Colts. Its castings have the same "squatty" aspect shown in the photos, with a relatively short nose portion--three wide drive bands of equal length--a generous square-cut lube groove and a smaller but still ample crimp groove. It contrasts markedly with the RCBS/Lachmiller cavities' relatively longer nose, and long noses aren't exclusive to RCBS--I have a screwy Lyman #358429 with short base band and long nose section that seems very un-Keith-like. I would be interested in knowing what Mr. Keith thought of these long-nosed interpretations of his designs......assuming these moulds were in production prior to his death. IIRC, one of Mr. Keith's objectives in his designs was to get more of the bullet depth outside the case mouth to increase powder space......nose lengthening might be a step in that direction.

Whatever info or interpretations that might occur to the correspondents on this site would interest me greatly. Thank you!

[S.B.]

Ahh yes, Jack O Conner almost had me convinced the .270 was the answer to all my hunting needs. I've read most of his works, over and over. They don't make them like that anymore, either. D***(read darn here) I'm getting old.
Steve

[FN in MT]

If anyone wants a few slugs from either the .41 or .45 mold I'll happily comply.

Cast a few out of a middle of the road alloy I assume? Not pure lead, but not hard as linotype either.

FN in MT

[FN in MT]

Fn He really did have some fine double rifles...seriously nice. It would take all of a afternoon to see and discuss what he had if he was in the mood to show them...which usually happened only when someone really appreciated them.

He opened up one of the doubles a .470 Nitro and it was LOADED. Had a soft and a FMJ in it. I ended up getting both of those cartridges from Mr. Keith. Still have them in my collection.

This past January the auction house that was selling all of his guns had the entire collection at the January Vegas Antique Arms show. So I got to handle them all again. Really depressing to see ALL of Mr. Keith's firearms as well as many personal items out for sale.

[What Cheer]

FN,

If you would please, it would be very helpful to those of us that will be looking for these moulds if you post the numbers of the .41 and.45 moulds you have. The numbers on the boxes, and the actual numbers and complete markings on the moulds themselves would be great.

Thanks, and best regards,

What Cheer

[What Cheer]

PJP,

Would you tell us please, the time period that you supplied the 'Prochko' Keith moulds and bullets. I have been researching the history/chronology of Keith's bullet designs for several years and the only reference to your moulds I have found is an answer to a reader's question by Bob Hagel regarding the Keith .44 caliber bullet, in Handloader magazine No. 131, January-February, 1988. Mr Hagel recommended contacting NEI and asking for the 'Prochko Keith mould'.

Thanks, and best regards,

What Cheer

[FN in MT]

[FN in MT]

[What Cheer]

FN, thank you sir.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[LAH]

LAH After talking with Walt Melanders son in law at NEI, bullets are probably as close as your going to get. If he does have them, he doesn't want to discuss them but I got the distinct impression that he literally threw out what Walt had that he thought was junk. I sent the masters to Walt in one of the velvet lined Smith and Wesson revolver gun boxes but I didn't even get to the point of asking him about the box due to what came across as total disinterest. If you do call him you could ask him about such a box and what was in it. He wasn't the least bit interested in talking about masters when I called. Paul

I spoke to his daughter & she showed the same disinterest. Haven't spoke with his SIL. For some reason I'm thinking they no longer cherrie molds but use a CNC machine?...........Lynn

[S.B.]

I know I speak far beyond my brain's capacity but, could it be that in the future we could get someone to manufacture these(the same way) and run a group buy here on this website? Or, would it be cost prohibitive? Just my pipe dream.
Steve

[PJP]

What Cheer I am thinking it was 1982 ish or 1983 ? (probably 1982 I am thinking) sometime there abouts ...I remember it wasn't to long after that that Elmer took sick and didn't recover. I used to visit Bob Hagel fairly often ...we got along well and he did a lot of good work like testing powder temperature variations of common use powders (rifle cartridges) due to temperature variations...interesting stuff and bullet tests.. I don't remember if he got a set of molds or not,

[PJP]

S.B. I am trying to run down molds or bullets from the molds or both, so bullets could be sent to whom ever to have molds made up. It wouldn't be to hard to do if I can find the other two calibers that FN doesn't have.

[PJP]

Fn It would be depressing to see all that go at auction.. I wouldn't want to be there... I am guessing it was mainly what Ted had (I think that his sons name). I do think there are some of his things that won't be in that auction, seems like one of my friends has one or two of his Smiths, hat etc. I am likewise sure he wouldn't part with them.

[S.B.]

OK, again thanks, please keep us posted?
Steve

[PJP]

S.B. I will keep you posted...certainly will.

[GLynn41]

would be a problem to show the cavities of the molds pictured above? I have had and will have a thing about Keiths-The first mold I bought when I started to cast was Lyman 358429-- next one 410459 +-410459 hp- now I have a Saeco .411 230 - also had a Saeco .411 225- even my sons .500 GNR uses a modified Keith--I guess they just bring back pleasant memories and they look right and they will do right

[Markbo]

Ahh yes, Jack O Conner almost had me convinced the .270 was the answer to all my hunting needs. I've read most of his works, over and over. They don't make them like that anymore, either. D***(read darn here) I'm getting old.
Steve

While an entertaining writer, my personal opinion is that the .270 is probably the single most over rated cartridge ever devised.

[LAH]

While an entertaining writer, my personal opinion is that the .270 is probably the single most over rated cartridge ever devised.

Don't hold back Mark, tell us how you really feel.