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Thread: "Real" Keith Bullets

  1. #61
    Boolit Master

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    I like Veral and all, but I have a deep suspicion that the fact that the round/flat type design lends itself much better to making with a tracer attachment like he uses has a lot to do with him ending up with that design. It may in fact be the best bullet profile to produce with a tracer attachment, and it also may work just as well as any other design.

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  2. #62
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    I think with sucha exspressive group we autta be able to hold a groug cyber seance, and call up old Elmer. All ya gotta do is log him in and make em' an avatar..

    -more instructions on that here:

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  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Seance.......I can only imagine what some of the now-deceased writers would say if they could. I think most of them wouldn't take great exception to much of what gets posted here, but would likely explode into profanity for what the mainstream gun press prints these days.

    I sure miss Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master LAH's Avatar
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    I'd say you is right Deputy
    Joshua 1:9

  5. #65
    Boolit Master C1PNR's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Al
    I sure miss Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton.
    After the movers picked up everything in the house in CA, I was left with only a couple of boxes of OLD magazines in the garage.

    While waiting for the house to sell I had a LOT of time to read over those old "gun rags." Many an afternoon and evening were spent with Skeeter, and some others too be fair. But Skeeter was always my favorite.

    As an aside, last Sunday I saw a copy of his book, "Good Friends, Good Guns, and Good Whiskey" (I think that's the correct name) for sale at the Fort Boise Gun Show for $100.00.
    Regards,

    WE

  6. #66
    Boolit Bub
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    Creeker,
    I bought some of your 230 gr 41 Keith style bullets and they shot as well as any I have ever had. What was that mold or was it a custom design?

  7. #67
    Boolit Master LAH's Avatar
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    Hey Jim..........NEI mould. 41-220-?......... I don't recall the finishing letters. One look on their site and you won't have any trouble picking it out. Glad the bullets worked for you. Never had a complaint on these so it must be a good design.
    Joshua 1:9

  8. #68
    Boolit Buddy

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    I really like to read opinions, everyone's own ideas are worth considering, all input is usefull.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master LAH's Avatar
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    Took the time to read this whole thread again so I'll bump this back to the top. Maybe someone might enjoy reading it again or maybe even post something about the group buy.

    God Bless
    Creeker

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Odd, I never read this thread, when it first saw daylight, but I was not interested in the "ins and outs" of the design. I have some old Lyman/Ideal molds for the design and didn't feel the need to get in on the group buy.

    Like others I found this to be a good bullet, but problematic in some sixguns.

    I started life as a small bore match shooter and later high power. I beat the roads to Camp Perry, back in the day when Elmer Keith, Al Barr and others were in attendence. They were always surrounded by a gagle of folks and I never butted in. I was a youngster and didn't have the confidence to break through a bunch of folks and interject myself into the conversation. We are talking mid to late 50's here.

    I did meet Keith later at an NRA convention and split a bottle or two with him, Bill Jordan and a few others. I was smart enough to take a fly on the wall approach and just listen. I don't remember much, as those were in the middle of my serious drinking days. We did correspond some in those years. I may or may not have those letters, I was not much on saving stuff in those days.

    I started casting for handguns around 1960 or so, maybe it was 1959, I just can't get it that close. Serious rifle bullet casting came much latter.

    The material on this thread has pretty much nailed down the original design and Keith's unhappyness with the changes made by Lyman. He got pretty POed at Lyman and recommended folks get Hensley and Gibbs molds as they were true to his original design.

    It is fun to kick up dust "way out there" with a sixgun, but very few of us can hit well enough at 300 yards and beyond to take advantage any theoritical advantge a true Keith might have. Many more folks talk and write about long range sixgun shooting that actualy do it.

    Elmer Keith didn't have the corner on good bullets in the 38/357. Both Phil Sharpe and Ray Thompson turned in excellent designes. In 1964, I bought a 3 hole SAECO #12 mold, which was a carry over design from Cramer. It was a Sharpe tyle bullet and I have never fired SWC bullet that was any better for accuracy and performance up to 100 yards. I still use this mold and it is as good as they day I bought it.

    When you get past 100 yards, the Ray Thompson gas check design (358156) tends to fly straighter for me.

    When it comes to pure accuracy in the 38/357 I have never found a SWC or a WC that can beat a good 150 - 160 grain RN. I have Lyman (358311), Hensley and Gibbs and Cramer molds in this design. They are not game bullets, but for small groups and hitting what you shoot at, way out younger, they are the best.

    Elmer Keith was a seminal figure in sixgun shooting, but he was not infallible or without error in this thinking. He was a prolific writer and never in doubt as to the superiority of his thinking over that of others.

    Keith has become an icon for the younger set of shooters. Keith made himself an icon, often at the expense of his peers. We get so twisted up in the ins and outs of "original Keith" design, that we often forget Elmer Keith the man.

    He was a nice man, but he took himself very, very seriously. Today, we take himself just as serious as he took himself. That would please him greatly.

    Now Bill Jordan was a giant of a man in any way you want to measure that, but that is another thread......

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    One of my measures for calling a bullet a Keith design is it MUST be accurate at long range, which to me means 200 yards and beyond. There are lots of bullets, named Keith or not that will not even get to one hundred yards with any accuracy. For those of you that have attended the Linebaugh seminar in Cody, the "Ballistic Invitational" will open your eyes as to what we do with our sixguns and why we shoot, make and love Elmer Keith bullets.

  12. #72
    Boolit Grand Master






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    frank makes a good point. Elmer liked to shoot out to long range and it was one of the main things he was looking for in a bullet. I dont think hed have negitive things to say about some of the other bullet designs we have now that will do the same. Like Frank said a trip to whyoming will really open your eyes up to some of the good and bad bullet designs out there and will show you that even altering elmers mold in the most minute ammount can drastically effect the way it flys. I dont know if he got lucky or was just good or if he had to use alot of trial and error but most of his designs do well at long range. Now im not saying that only elmers designs will shoot way out there. there are other swc and lfns that do just as well. But like frank said especially in a swc you can get a lemon and go to a wfn and ill gurantee you one. Frank is no dummy himself when it comes to designing a good swc. Ive got his 512 keith mold and have shot his 475 version and believe me he did well with them. There my two favorite bullets in each of those calibers. One of my group buy 475 molds is heading his way for some side by side comparisons and im anxious to see the results.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the kind words Lloyd, an awful lot of credit must go to Jeff Oakland even though he is Norwegian

  14. #74
    Boolit Master LAH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chargar View Post
    It is fun to kick up dust "way out there" with a sixgun, but very few of us can hit well enough at 300 yards and beyond to take advantage any theoritical advantge a true Keith might have. Many more folks talk and write about long range sixgun shooting that actualy do it.
    AMEN

    Quote Originally Posted by frank505 View Post
    the "Ballistic Invitational" will open your eyes as to what we do with our sixguns and why we shoot, make and love Elmer Keith bullets.
    AMEN AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by frank505 View Post
    an awful lot of credit must go to Jeff Oakland even though he is Norwegian
    AMEN THE 3RD TIME

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    hay Creeker I still have a few of your boolits left --but not for long --they still very well--I even have some in wheel weights you made for twillis

  16. #76
    Boolit Master Texasflyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beagle View Post
    Now, the H & G #326 and #328 (278 grains and 320 grains) have full .100" bands.
    @#%$$%@!!!!

    Can I have some better pics of these two for the website? I still have the originals you sent me years ago, but would like to add more pics of the projectiles.




    Thanks in advance...
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    http://www.hensleygibbs.com

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  17. #77
    Cast Boolits Founder/B.O.B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatMarlin View Post
    I think with sucha exspressive group we autta be able to hold a groug cyber seance, and call up old Elmer. All ya gotta do is log him in and make em' an avatar..

    Hmmm,,I wonder if that would work?
    Boolits= as God laid it into the soil,,grand old Galena,the Silver Stream graciously hand poured into molds for our consumption.

    Bullets= Machine made utilizing Full Length Gas Checks as to provide projectiles for the masses.

    http://www.cafepress.com/castboolits

    castboolits@gmail.com

  18. #78
    "Moderator Emeritus" Elmer Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45nut View Post
    Hmmm,,I wonder if that would work?

    You wonder if what will work?




  19. #79
    Boolit Master
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    Well I'll be.....Elmer your alive!!!!!! Remember when we hunted Alberta together? What do you think of all these new big handgun cartridges, kinda makes your .44 look small....just kidding!!! You were right when you said you would trade away velocity for bullet wieght and/or dia. anyday.

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    Jeffs long range experiments with handguns and his results as to what bullets work and what dont would be a gold mine of info for the people on this fourm if you could persuade him to post it pal. Sure would save alot of people alot of money on **** molds and bullet designs.
    Quote Originally Posted by frank505 View Post
    Thanks for the kind words Lloyd, an awful lot of credit must go to Jeff Oakland even though he is Norwegian
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check