"Real" Keith Bullets

[Forrest r]

There's been soooooo many copies/influences over the decades on Keith's design. I'm glad to see people here trying to find the true design.

Some of my favorite "keith" 35cal's

[IMG][/IMG]

Red/left:
h&g #51- The top band is .358 & the middle band is the longest, shallowest hp. 150gr hp
Lead/center:
cramer #26- The top band is .358 & the bottom band is the longest, it also has the shallowest lube groove, cone shapped hp. 158gr hp
Green/right:
Lyman 358439- The top band is .352, the middle band is the longest, rounded grease groove, deepest hp. 158gr hp

Not my picture, A couple of years back I was talking with a fellow member on this forum and he was kind enough to sent me this picture of recovered "keith" 44cals. We were talking about bullet design and bullet compression.

[IMG][/IMG]

His findings mirrored mine. In my limited testing round or shallow grease grooves are stronger (compress less) than their deep square counterparts. Longer/thicker bottom bullet bases/drive bands are stronger than skinny/narrow bullet bases/drive bands.

The cramer #26 pictured above will easily out perform the lyman and h&g versions of the keith 35cal bullet.

Interestingly enough I get the same performance with the h&g #51 that I do with the lyman 358477. The bullets are interchangeable & have the same poi and accuracy for the same load. The h&g #51 left/green and the lyman 358477/right. The only real difference between the 2 is the round grease groove on the lyman and lyman is around 4gr lighter (shallower hp). And the h&g has a longer middle drive band.

[IMG][/IMG]


Just more pics/idea's/likes about "Keith" bullets and their differences in designs.

[AggiePharmD]

Has NOE made these molds yet? Specifically the 41?

The last I heard he has copies of all the bullets discussed here to include the 41. The consensus is that he will get started on drawings and such sometime after the new year.

[Beagle333]

Nice drawing LAH looks a bit like the RCBS 45 KT. Dia is more than I would pick. Be interested dimensions of FNs NEI that PJP helpped with

any chance that one of the 45s had made it to Al at NOE?

Yes, I sent him about 6 or 7 each of the 45s and the 41s. I got two confirmation messages that they were received and a drawing would be coming. That was a couple of weeks before his big "End of Year Sale" so he probably got swamped with that.

[youngmman]

When I started casting I bought a number of molds from H&G in anticipation of needing them: The #43/51/503 produce superb bullets that are very accurate. When I compare them to the 1969 Guns & Ammo article Keith wrote about his bullets I am sure he would love them.

[K7sparky]

OK ALL
I just kick started the discussion for mould group buys at NOE

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....ic,1285.0.html

It's time to put up.

No eye deer how long I have wanted these

It takes 10 "I Want" posts for each caliber to get a group buy going AND you get a 15% discount as part of the group!

[LAH]

His findings mirrored mine. In my limited testing round or shallow grease grooves are stronger (compress less) than their deep square counterparts. Longer/thicker bottom bullet bases/drive bands are stronger than skinny/narrow bullet bases/drive bands.

Correct on both points. IMHO

[Beagle333]

The drawings are up at NOE..... see Post #13.

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....11438.html#new

[S.B.]

OK, I'm ignorant what is RG molds?
Steve

[Beagle333]

OK, I'm ignorant what is RG molds?
Steve

Thread with answer and pics:
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,231.0.html

[S.B.]

Beagle, from the link I get it's a multiple point mold? Why if Elmer only dealt in solid noses?
Steve

[Beagle333]

NOE will offer them all as solid-only molds as well. I can't speak for anybody else, but I was hoping for (and the drawing shows) equal width driving bands that match the originals and that supposedly will make them shoot like the originals. The hollow point option just adds more options to that great design. I personally almost always get the RG molds so that I may choose which boolits I want to cast that day... solids or HPs.

[Mal Paso]

Beagle, from the link I get it's a multiple point mold? Why if Elmer only dealt in solid noses?
Steve

He didn't. Elmer had the 429421 for instance in hollow point and hollow base in addition to solid.

[K7sparky]

OK, I'm ignorant what is RG molds?
Steve

RG are Al's answer to a fully functional HP mould.

They come with 3 sets of bottom pins for HP, FP (just like originals) and usually a slightly concave for a slight RN. Keiths are already long, however a slight RN may be a solution to a finicky lever action. You get 3 moulds in 1.

Takes throwing a few to get used to them and to get the pins hot enough to drop boolits well. Get the temp right and the boolits drop off the HP pins like they weren't even there.

I tip the mould slightly so the pins fall to the side when opening.

Flip the mould back upright pins toward home and a tiny shake to settle them down and started home as closing works for me.

The top screw holes are concentric so you can swap the spruce plate screws. This flipps RG assembly on the bottom of the mould to the opposite side. I use have a LEE bottom pour and can then use the mould rest. 4 cylinder brass start getting heavy after awhile.

All the mould screws have Allen set screws that gall the threads a bit. Al said he'd tried brass set screws but had reports of stripping them. The set screws are short by necessity. I have taken to popping all the set screws and dropping in a ?#7? pellet after flattening it slightly with a small peening hammer. The slight flattening is necessary to have enough thread to start the set screws. Like the old RCBS die rings.

Read the sheet that comes with the mould and temperature cycle them a few times in an oven. I use a counter top convection. Al know that of which he speaks. I clean mine with a tooth brush and scrubbing bubbles.

Try the mould spruce plate lube on the order drop down. It goes a LONG way as you use only a tiny bit. I'll never go back to never seize or wax.

[dromia]

Good post.

On the issue of the set screws, When I get my new moulds from NOE I season them on top of the multifuel cast iron stove we have in our living room. Before putting them on top of the stove I treat the top of the mould bottom of the sprue plate, locating pins and holes and the set screws with NOE sprue plate lube, I wipe it on and wipe it off before heating the moulds up, I will repeat this two or three times during the season cycle on the stove. I also cut slices of copper wire and put them in the bottom of the set screw holes this cushions the set screws and stops them binding.

[K7sparky]

Like the copper wire better than the pellets I've used so far.

Will also add a tad of lube b4 the seasoning on the latest 2 on the way now

[K7sparky]

Thanks Creeker for keeping the faith for 9+ years

beagle333, 45, bass and others for helping to kick the can

AND Paul for showing up at the critical time to finally push the pendulum over the top and coordinate getting correct samples to Swede

What a GREAT Christmas present for us faithfuls

[alamogunr]

Good post.

On the issue of the set screws, When I get my new moulds from NOE I season them on top of the multifuel cast iron stove we have in our living room. Before putting them on top of the stove I treat the top of the mould bottom of the sprue plate, locating pins and holes and the set screws with NOE sprue plate lube, I wipe it on and wipe it off before heating the moulds up, I will repeat this two or three times during the season cycle on the stove. I also cut slices of copper wire and put them in the bottom of the set screw holes this cushions the set screws and stops them binding.

Another solution to set screws is brass tipped set screws. I did this:

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/...et&hdrsrh=true

but looking back there are cheaper solutions such as dromia mentions above. One of the problems is the several different threads. This rears it's head if you have an extensive collection of molds from over the years. Lyman, RCBS, SAECO to mention a few older molds that I have. I don't have an Accurate mold(YET!) but I I do have several MP molds and NOE molds and used the brass tip set screws on them.

[K7sparky]

Thread with answer and pics:
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,231.0.html

GREAT Pictures Beagle

I like the shape of some of the other pins I hadn't noticed B4.

Any tails to tell on use of the 4 sided HP pins and do they drop as well as the round HP pins

[LAH]

Thanks Creeker for keeping the faith for 9+ years

beagle333, 45, bass and others for helping to kick the can

AND Paul for showing up at the critical time to finally push the pendulum over the top and coordinate getting correct samples to Swede

What a GREAT Christmas present for us faithfuls

You're welcome. And thanks to Paul for coming forward. I hope this group purchase brings molds which satisfy all.

[K7sparky]

Does anyone know if Keith did HBs?