Al-5

[10x]

I have about 8 lb of al-5.
I have found very limited data on this powder for 9 mm.
Any one have any idea of whether it will work well in 38 spl or 45 colt or 45 acp or 44 mag?

Is there any information on using this stuff in 22 hornet or 223 under a cast boolit?

I'm looking for sources for tested load data for AL5 not asking for a load.

Also is this powder covered in Wolfe publishing propellant profiles?

[Japlmg]

AL-5 is very simular to Unique in burn rate and charge weight.
Use Unique load data when using AL-5.
As always, you should start a begining loads and work your way up.
Never start a max loads!
Gregg

[Skipper]

.....edited

[oso]

Alcan Reloader's Manual XI 1966 page 21 has a Pistol Charge Table, no 9mm of rifle data, but 38 Spl, 357 Mag and 44 Mag AL-5 data.
I have a copy of a similar Alcan Pistol Charge Table but a page 7 from ?, which I found filed with an Alcan Shotshell Charge Table page 8 from Smith & Wesson-Fiocchi, Inc.
Speer Reloading Manual Number Nine has 9mm, 38 Spl and 45 ACP AL-5 loads.

[10x]

AL-5 is very simular to Unique in burn rate and charge weight.
Use Unique load data when using AL-5.
As always, you should start a begining loads and work your way up.
Never start a max loads!
Gregg

You are sure about it being a close equivalent? I do not want to have a pressure excursion or any sort of adventure that may damage the gun or me.
Would AL5 be similar data to unique using a cast bullet in a 30-30? Or would the internal pressures be different?

Alcan Reloader's Manual XI 1966 page 21 has a Pistol Charge Table, no 9mm of rifle data, but 38 Spl, 357 Mag and 44 Mag AL-5 data.
I have a copy of a similar Alcan Pistol Charge Table but a page 7 from ?, which I found filed with an Alcan Shotshell Charge Table page 8 from Smith & Wesson-Fiocchi, Inc.
Speer Reloading Manual Number Nine has 9mm, 38 Spl and 45 ACP AL-5 loads.

Thank you, this is what I was looking for.
I have at least 2 dozen manuals and not very much data in any of them for AL5.

BTW: AL5 is an old Alcan shotshell powder.
Will it work in 20 gauge with similar data as Unique or is there a pressure curve difference. Alcan powder loads took a witches brew of wads to set up to get the right pressure on the powder if I read all of the old manuals correctly.

Thank you for the source. I found a partial scan of the load data for Alcan powders in pistol calibers.
well for 38 and 357..
This gives me a staring point.
Thank you guys.
Any more like this is greatly appreciated

[frnkeore]

1962, first edition of Handloader Digest.

Max charges AL5,

38 Spec. 146 gr bullet, 8.0 gr, 1100 fps
160 gr bullet, 7.0 gr, 1000

357 Mag. 146 gr bullet, 10.5 gr, 1400 fps

44 Spec. 235 gr bullet, 10.0 gr, 1150 fps

It doesn't say jacketed or cast for the bullets.

Frank

[Rocky Raab]

As you can tell from Frank's post, Alcan-5 is significantly slower than Unique. I also have and use Alcan powders, and used Herco data as my "rule of thumb" for AL-5. You could be a tad be more cautious and use Unique data for your START loads, though.

(Edited the above paragraph to correct my faulty memory.)

Like most early-generation powders, Alcan products tend to burn incompletely and dirty at lower than design pressures. That actually serves as a good milepost in load development: when the load begins to burn cleanly, you are getting close to that powder's design pressure. Depending on the cartridge's pressure limit, that will tell you if the powder is too fast or too slow for that use.

[10x]

As you can tell from Frank's post, Alcan-5 is significantly slower than Unique. I also have and use Alcan powders, and used BlueDot data as my "rule of thumb" for AL-5. You could be a tad be more cautious and use Herco data for your START loads, though.

Like most early-generation powders, Alcan products tend to burn incompletely and dirty at lower than design pressures. That actually serves as a good milepost in load development: when the load begins to burn cleanly, you are getting close to that powder's design pressure. Depending on the cartridge's pressure limit, that will tell you if the powder is too fast or too slow for that use.

I have used the "clean burn" method with Unique. Start at min load in a pistol bullet. As I work up pressure, the fouling reduces
when I hit the sweet spot there is very little increase in fouling and the bullet and gun seem to like the load.
And velocity over a chrono graph becomes more uniform.
Iwill do this with my AL5...
Thank you. This is a starting point along with the loads from the old Alcan manual i have found.

[runfiverun]

al-5 used to be [and probably still is] the best low flash powder available especially for the 38-357 when used for s/d loads.

[Eutectic]

Like most early-generation powders, Alcan products tend to burn incompletely and dirty at lower than design pressures.

AL-5 burns pretty clean in handgun loads..... Actually cleaner than anything in its burn rate other than maybe IMR 4756. Design pressure as a shotshell powder is 10,000 psi or so. It's cleaner than WW231 in my experience for handgun loads at 15,000 psi and up. I was given a keg and have shot a lot of it. Herco is close with AL-5 being a tad slower... Not Blue Dot slow though. AL-7 is closer to that. AL-7 is dirtier burning than AL-5 but it sure killed ducks!! (Or was it the lead shot?)

Eutectic

[oso]

Rocky, possible "caution!" in order - possible typo? Were you thinking of AL-8 when you mentioned BlueDot? (I think of BlueDot when I've got the AL-8 out.) I haven't used AL-5 but kinda speculate it might be between HS5 and HS6 or like Herco judging by specific application in published handgun data. I can't find any comparable load data to compare with the AL-5 shotshell data I have, though I've done plenty of card and fiber loads. Call me Curious but Cautious and Consider any unfamiliar propellant to be like Bullseye until proven otherwise.

[Rocky Raab]

Thanks, OSO. I really ought to stop trusting my aging memory so implicitly. I was in fact thinking of AL-7 when I typed that. I have corrected the post, but will reiterate here:

AL-5 is a bit slower than Unique, and close to Herco. You'd be safe using Unique data for Start loads.


Edit to add: Here is my "rough approximation" guide for Alcan powders:

AL-120 is near RedDot

AL-5 is near Herco

AL-7 is near BlueDot

AL-8 is near 2400

[sargenv]

According to Speer # 8, AL-5 with a 125 gr bullet was rated 6 gr @ 957 fps, 6.5 gr at 1005 fps, and 7.0 gr @ 1105 fps. There was no data for the 115.

[wiljen]

1960 alcan manual available here: http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html

[sargenv]

The Alcan manual only has listing for 38 spl and 357 magnum.. The early Speer manuals have data for several cartridges and AL-5, AL-7, and AL-8

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks, OSO. I really ought to stop trusting my aging memory so implicitly. I was in fact thinking of AL-7 when I typed that. I have corrected the post, but will reiterate here:

AL-5 is a bit slower than Unique, and close to Herco. You'd be safe using Unique data for Start loads.


Edit to add: Here is my "rough approximation" guide for Alcan powders:

AL-120 is near RedDot

AL-5 is near Herco

AL-7 is near BlueDot

AL-8 is near 2400

1960 alcan manual available here: http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html

Thanks for this info, I have a few cans of these and have used some data from an old Herters manual.
Jon

[10x]

An update, I loaded up 50 rounds of 44 Russian with a 200 grain plain base bullet and using unique data (Al5 is slower than Unique) the starting load of 4.3 grains.
the first shots fired out of a Rossi 44 magnum have little recoil and are fairly quite. I got brave and fired a shot out of my Model 3 Schofield and it was louder with very little recoil.
I will be heading to the range with a chronograph. I expect these loads to come in at 550 - 600 fps as indicated by the research I have done (15% to 20% less velocity than the same load using Unique). I have measured the case diameter at the head with a micrometer and there is no measurable expansion at that point.

AL5 takes me back 40 years as it has been that long since I smelled gun smoke with the same smell.
I will be also be working up a load of AL5 over a 158 grain lyman GC bullet for my Rossi in 38 special. My micrometer will be doing to the range with me and I will be measuring cases and chorongraphing loads. So many bullets, so many molds, so many guns and too few years left to shoot them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

I have found very limited data on this powder for 9 mm.

al-5 used to be [and probably still is] the best low flash powder available especially for the 38-357 when used for s/d loads.

According to Speer # 8, AL-5 with a 125 gr bullet was rated 6 gr @ 957 fps, 6.5 gr at 1005 fps, and 7.0 gr @ 1105 fps. There was no data for the 115.

Today, I plan on loading some Lee 120 TC in 9mm, I have 500 lube-sized and ready to load.
I was thinking I might use some recently acquired AL-5.

My Speer #9 manual lists 125gr jacketed data similar to what sargenv posted from the Speer #8.
BUT, the #9 only lists data for 125gr RN Lead with 5.0gr AL-5 (Max), 894 fps.

So, I am wondering if I should save the AL-5 for the Hotter Jacketed bullet loads, since those will benefit from the low flash capability, that R5R mentions.

So, should I just stick with my usual charge of Unique for these 120gr TC in the 9mm?

Just thinking out loud, while I have my morning coffee.