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Thread: forming 25/20 single shot

  1. #1
    Boolit Master at Heaven's Range
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    forming 25/20 single shot

    hi was wondering if any one has info ,if you can make 25/20 sigle shot brass out of some other brass? also does any body make dies to form it from some thing else any info would help thanks 257

  2. #2
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    It's a necked down, 32-20. One article mentioned that .223 brass could be converted. They didn't say how.

    Buffalo Arms lists brass. $45. for 20
    http://www.buffaloarms.com/25_20_Sin....aspx?CAT=3834

    $43.99 here
    http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/1118

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    [QUOTE=dbosman;2167701]It's a necked down, 32-20. One article mentioned that .223 brass could be converted. They didn't say how. QUOTE]

    It is NOT necked down 32-20. Don't know about forming from .223. Regards, WOody
    Regards, Woody
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    Take a kid along.

  4. #4
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    The short answer is NO!

    There is no parent case at all.
    Word from:" The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions"
    Can be made fron the bottom of a .223 case with sone 5/16" thin walled tubing.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    .354 .vs .349

    They are a bit different.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    dbosman, you are getting your 25-20 cartridges mixed up. While the 25-20 WCF can be formed from 32-20 brass, the 25-20 single shot is a different animal. Smaller in diameter quite a bit longer than the WCF. Look at the fourth post for a picture comparison of the 2.

    http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/t...TOPIC_ID=12158
    Lyman 22596,225107,225353,225438,225415,225450,225646, 225462,228367,244203,245496,245497,245498,245499 RCBS 22-55-SP,22-55-FP,243-95-SP,243-100-FP, NEI 100244GC-#14, 55 224 GC-#4,225 45-#3 PB, NOE 22-055 SP,MX2-243,Saeco 221 & 243, RD TLC225-50-RF,Lee 22 Bator 6c & 2c HP. Love casting small boolits, let me know if you have one that I don't that you would part with!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master frnkeore's Avatar
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    Excellent, as in the best, 25/20ss cases. Ready to go.

    http://www.captechintl.com/products.php?cat=7

    Frank

  8. #8
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCall View Post
    dbosman, you are getting your 25-20 cartridges mixed up.
    Thank you!
    I just learned something new.
    I'm posting the two cartridge drawings for others just learning that difference.

  9. #9
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    Bill Ballard used to form .25-20 Single Shot brass by "violent" reformation of .223 brass. (His quote.) He turned a bit off the base, swaged the rest of the shell to the general shape and trimmed them to length. The rims were thin and the service life of most of the box of 50 I bought from him averaged maybe seven reloadings, although the last lone one finally bit the dust a couple years back.

    Somebody had the procedure of how to convert .223 to .25-20SS posted on that Yahoo site that for a while was the successor to the old Shooter's site. It may have made it to the ASSRA site. Worth a search of their Archives or a question to the group.

    In any case, you need a hydraulic press and special dies, and the result is probably no better than the worst of what you could get from Bertram back in the old days. The Jamison stuff is so superior to not only Bertram but a lot of the original .25-20SS brass that I've used that it simply isn't practical to do anything but order from Jamison.

  10. #10
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    The 25-20 Single Shot was the parent brass for the R-2 Lovell; so in theory if you can find a quantity of R-2 brass, you could reform it. I think Jamison was supposed to make some before they went out of business, but whether they ever did or not, I do not know.

    Robert

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Just order new cases from BACO, making them from .223 would be a last resort as you have to turn down the cases at the base.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man shaggybull's Avatar
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    I have 30 pieces 25 - 20 brass are you interested?

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I believe the 25-20 was also the parent case for the 218 bee but thats getting as scarce as hens teeth also.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    I believe the 25-20 was also the parent case for the 218 bee but thats getting as scarce as hens teeth also.
    The 25-20 Winchester Yes, the 25-20 Single Shot No. You have to keep in mind that even though the 25-20's share the same name, they are worlds apart in dimensions.
    Yes, you can easley form the Bee from the 25-20 Winchester.

  15. #15
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    Captech Int'l(the new Jamison owners) shows it with pricing: http://www.captechintl.com/proddetail.php?prod=2520SS I assume it is in stock since others show out of stock and don't let you order. They have the basic brass as well for all those Lovell shooters.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I am resurrecting this old thread because all the sources listed are defunct. Jameson is gone. Captech has been shuttered for awhile, possibly to return one day. If Bertram is still around, no one has their stuff in stock anymore. I just cleaned out the last of it from Graf & Sons. I would like to find a source for this brass or instructions to form...

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Not to be too negative, but it looks like what we’ve got is what we’ll get. The several attempts mentioned previously seem to indicate that there is insufficient demand for anyone to gear up and make a profitable batch. More’s the pity! About our only hope would be if Starline were to somehow be inspired to make a run... a pretty unlikely scenario I guess.

    I own an original round #3 barrel high wall and have been in the process of building a custom #1 octagon barrel low wall, so I follow the 25-20 brass “market” rather closely. My greatest regret is that when the legendary BELL Brass was in business they never got around to mass producing the25-20 Basic they had promised. A few hundred rounds of that would have put a guy in good shape for life!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Making the 25-20 Single Shot from .223 can be done but is a bit time consuming. I learned the process from several old timers here on this site.
    The formed brass looked good and for the lower pressure in the 25-20 Single Shot worked well and years later am still using a lot of it. Was better than Bertram but no where in the quality of Jamison.
    Did reform some of it into 2 R Lovell but it just didn't stand up to the higher pressures involved with head separations often on the second or third shot. For the R-2 I wound up ordering a good supply of Jamison.
    Like I said, the process is not difficult but you are going to need at least a 20 ton press and a couple of simple fixtures you can make on any small lathe.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    Not to be too negative, but it looks like what we’ve got is what we’ll get. The several attempts mentioned previously seem to indicate that there is insufficient demand for anyone to gear up and make a profitable batch. More’s the pity! About our only hope would be if Starline were to somehow be inspired to make a run... a pretty unlikely scenario I guess.

    I own an original round #3 barrel high wall and have been in the process of building a custom #1 octagon barrel low wall, so I follow the 25-20 brass “market” rather closely. My greatest regret is that when the legendary BELL Brass was in business they never got around to mass producing the25-20 Basic they had promised. A few hundred rounds of that would have put a guy in good shape for life!

    Froggie
    Jamison bought all the old Bell Extrusion Labs (BELL) machinery when they closed their doors. I don't remember who purchased the machinery when Jamison closed shop.

    I still have a relatively large quantity of the BELL .45 Basic brass for my .45-120 Sharps, but it's not for sale.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I'm one who actually has formed .25-20 and Lovell from .223 brass, and can provide instructions iof you'll P/M me an email addy. It does require some lathe work to make the tooling, a 7x57 Mauser sizing die, and an hydraulic press. No reloading press made will do it. Not even bullet-swaging presses.

    Poster above who had head separations didn't do the initial swage operation properly. This is crucial, to prevent the formation of a ring of thin brass about 1/4" forward of the rim.

    Done right, you wind up with a case whose rim is too thin and slightly too small, but is strong. Due to the thick walls the capacity is reduced, so all loads have to be backed off a full grain. The thin rim is no matter if the case is formed to R2 Lovell; just headspace on the shoulder. Your extractor may have trouble with the smaller diameter if its worn or loose.

    Photos: One is the case after the initial swage operation. The flare at the rim must look like this. If it isn't carried down far enough you will get the thin ring and head separations. Secondly a sectioned case, showing the shape of the inner wall that must result. Third a poor shot of the punches I had to make. The fat one is the key. The distance from the nose to the shoulder controls how far down the swaging goes. By stopping the punch on the shoulder, every case comes out the same.
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    Last edited by ReloaderFred; 02-09-2018 at 03:08 PM. Reason: typo
    So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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