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Thread: Alternatives to "Standard" Pistol Powders

  1. #41
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    e3 vs. Bullseye

    Here's some more tests I performed last spring doing a direct, grain-for-grain comparison of e3 and Bullseye:

    Firearm- Uberti Hombre; .357 Mag.- 4 3/4" barrel
    Case- R-P
    Primer- Tula SPP
    Bullet- H&G #51 160 gr. SWC, ACWW, .358"

    e3- 2.5 grs.; 683 fps; e.s.=50
    Bullseye- 2.5 grs.; 650 fps; e.s.= 37

    e3- 3.0 grs.; 777 fps; e.s.=67
    Bullseye- 3.0 grs.; 730 fps; e.s.=22

    e3- 3.5 grs.; 858 fps; e.s.=22
    Bullseye- 3.5 grs.; 828 fps; e.s.=11

    e3- 4.0 grs.; 925 fps; e.s.=48 NOTE: Likely over maximum in a 38 Spec.
    Bullseye- 4.0 grs.; 897 fps; e.s.=24 NOTE: Likely over maximum in a 38 Spec.

    35W
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -Col. Townsend Whelen.
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  2. #42
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 Whelen View Post
    ...I called a local guy who sells powder out of his house and he had some of both, so I bought a pound of each...


    35W
    Wish I had that here!

    Thanks for posting this thread as its nice to have options. I saw some Steel and 410 in a GS recently-the only non-muzzle loader powders in stock-but didn't buy either because the label said it was for shotguns. After coming home, I wish I'd bought either because Steel is a medium speed powder and 410 is slow similar to IMR4227. Oh well.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    There's a thread here on using Alliant Steel. I've loaded 410 shotshells some and it generally uses powders such as 2400 or H110/W296, so that'll give you an idea of the burning rate/characteristics of AL410.

    35W
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -Col. Townsend Whelen.
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  4. #44
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 Whelen View Post
    There's a thread here on using Alliant Steel. I've loaded 410 shotshells some and it generally uses powders such as 2400 or H110/W296, so that'll give you an idea of the burning rate/characteristics of AL410.

    35W
    Thanks for the link.

  5. #45
    Boolit Bub
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    700x & 800x.

    I love them.

  6. #46
    Boolit Mold
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    Hello everyone! This is my first post on the forum after lurking around for awhile. There sure is a wealth of knowledge amongst all the members and I hope to be able to lean a bit for everyone in time.

    This particular thread caught my eye with regards to the use of 20/28 with certain loads. I'm somewhat new to the metallic stuff but well versed in the shot shell department. That said I've been having an issue, much like everyone else, sourcing pistol powders but I do have nearly 12lbs of 20/28 on hand.

    Has anyone done any further testing with the 20/28? Or have some load data they might like to share? Based on the OP's results this could be a great solution to my current powder shortage. BTW, I'm currently using .38's with 158g swc over 3.0g of Unique.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

    Jeff

  7. #47
    Boolit Man
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    Good info in this thread. I've settled on Green Dot as a universal handgun powder that is available when everything else is sold out. It's the best powder I've found for 9mm and cast.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    I have been curious about alliant 410.... It is right next to 2400 on hogdons burn rate chart, but on other charts, it is not listed, and on some others like ramshots burn rate chart it is way different, and then you check sites like reloaders bench burnrate chart, it is on the bottom of slow.... I bought a large jug of it but have been reluctant to try it.... Cant find any loads using it on loaddata.... So feel free to chime in here....

    AG

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Airman Basic's Avatar
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    I might as well bite the bullet, sorry. I really want some Bullseye. But I think the only way to make it appear on the market is to buy enough of one of these substitutes to make it worth the dang hazmat charge. Then everybody will have Bullseye on the shelves. Least that's the way my luck usually runs. So I'm really doing for you guys.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanGuy View Post
    I have been curious about alliant 410.... It is right next to 2400 on hogdons burn rate chart, but on other charts, it is not listed, and on some others like ramshots burn rate chart it is way different, and then you check sites like reloaders bench burnrate chart, it is on the bottom of slow.... I bought a large jug of it but have been reluctant to try it.... Cant find any loads using it on loaddata.... So feel free to chime in here....

    AG
    The chart I looked at said it was about the same speed as IMR4227. I'm low on 296 and the only other pistol powders I have are Unique and some Goex 3F. Wish I had bought that 410 when I had the chance but I didn't.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    Anybody have some data on the alliant 410 as an alt to 2400 ???

  12. #52
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanGuy View Post
    Anybody have some data on the alliant 410 as an alt to 2400 ???
    I emailed Alliant about that the same time I asked about 20/28 burn rate compared to Unique. The answer for 20/28 was that it was pretty darn close to Unique but no testing had been done on 410 in relation to 2400 as an alternate powder or something to that effect as I also had the same idea. I was hoping that the same person that posted the initial 20/28 comparison to Unique data would take up both Steel and 410 to see what was what but I don't think this has been done yet.
    I don't have a chrono so I would be looking at pressure signs only and don't feel comfortable testing new powder in an application without 2, seperate ways to see what the powder is doing such as velocity spikes and pressure signs
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  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Agreed.... I dont have a chrono either, and am just a bit hesitant.... Plus being remote like i am, i tend to take fewer chances these days.... When i had to be medivaced a couple years ago, that bill for a 45 min flight to the hospital was over $30,000.00 and insurance did not cover it.... Ouch... That hurt worse then the thing i was medivaced for...lol

    AG

  14. #54
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Check this chart out by Hodgdon.
    http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

    It shows 410 to be right next to 2400 and Steel between AA#9 and H110.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    I used a couple of Kilos of REX 0 and REX 3 in my .45's with great success, both are not recommended for this caliber. At the time I picked it up for $20 a Kilo. Just found the old can I got it for $10 a Kilo FYI I used Unique data for REX 3 and Bullseye data for REX 0 for my starting loads I STARTED WITH THE LOWEST LISTED LOAD, THEN I ADDED 0.2 GRAINS UNTIL THEY WOULD RELIABLY EJECT AND CYCLE THE PISTOL. I didn't own a chronograh at the time and was just looking for practice ammo.
    Last edited by ravelode; 01-26-2014 at 09:03 AM. Reason: correction/addendum

  16. #56
    Boolit Master dougader's Avatar
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    I wonder if the Alliant 410 is anything like the AA4100??? I see some data in Lyman 49th for the AA4100 in "magnum" big-bore calibers like 480 Ruger, etc.

    As mentioned above, Solo 1000 has quite a following in the USPSA/IPSC crowd running minor power factor loads. I think, though, there have been pressure spikes for some people wanting to use the Solo 1000 for making major PF loads. IIRC, a call to the distributor warned them away from pushing max loads with it.

  17. #57
    Boolit Bub cbriggs57's Avatar
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    I was looking for AA4100 info, too. That and Longshot are all my local gun shop has in stock, and I just bought a new Ruger GP100 (non-catalogued 38 special 3" with ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS) that I need to feed. also load 357 mag for my father. Can't find much tested info for longshot and almost none for 4100. I', shooting 155 gr SWCGC and 173 grain Keith bullets.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbriggs57 View Post
    I was looking for AA4100 info, too. That and Longshot are all my local gun shop has in stock, and I just bought a new Ruger GP100 (non-catalogued 38 special 3" with ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS) that I need to feed. also load 357 mag for my father. Can't find much tested info for longshot and almost none for 4100. I', shooting 155 gr SWCGC and 173 grain Keith bullets.
    I got some Longshot recently to use in place of 2400 because I couldn't find any. The info I read various places on the web showed it had a very similar burn rate as 2400 with similar amounts. I've only used it in my 303 British to launch 224g boolits but it worked pretty good for that. Will try it in my 44 mag eventually.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderDawgAl View Post
    Good info in this thread. I've settled on Green Dot as a universal handgun powder that is available when everything else is sold out. It's the best powder I've found for 9mm and cast.
    I have to agree that Green Dot works for 9mm and cast.
    I have been using Green Dot recently in my 9mm under a Lee 120 tc with outstanding results. I purchased it when I couldn't find anything else.
    I found an older Alliant load manual that listed almost all Alliant powders for pistol use and used that data. Worked like a charm.

  20. #60
    Red Dot minus 10-20% workup Alliant e3 Alternate Powder Pistol Handload Range Report:
    Preface E3 is a extreemly clean very fast Nitro Mix composition "flake" powder I am told, known for forgiving properties with non linear pressure curve within Red Dot specs. But dangerous if not very careful to stay within max for Red Dot & or CUP with heavier boolits in longer barrels.
    Sorry smartphone w/ Tapatalk app don't allow formatting, bold, RTF stuff.
    Will post cast polyester powder coat boolit results after we get done in about 3 weeks or so.
    Range report on Alliant e3 pistol load workups for:
    380acp
    9mm Luger
    10mm auto

    Summaries only as posting all the data from our log is pointless. All e3 loads shot at 100 yard burm target in 50F weather windy gusting to 28 mph (yea fun) @ 591' above sea level. Sorry no chrono.

    380acp test gun Sig P238 2.7" bbl 15.2 oz w/ mag near new all factory less than 20 round count:
    Factory ammo reference Remington UMC 95 gr MC, metal case.plinker accuracy was inconsistent to terrible @ 25 yards. UMC used to make good stuff in the '80's not sure what happaned at the Lonoke factory in AR.

    Bullet= 100 gr Berrys bulk cold swaged lead core electro plated (no jacket) here: http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c5...l_Bullets.aspx
    Primer Winchester small pistol.
    Cases once fired range brass untrimmed full resize. OAL .977"-.984".
    Powder charge increment of .75 gr from 2.1 gr to 2.925 gr. Lowest charges from 2.1 to 2.7 gr acceptable for 20 to 50 yard plinking. Accuracy sweet spot @ 100 yds gradually tightened to peak at two steps 2.775 gr to 2.850 gr and max load @ 2.925 gr began to destabilize. Recoil was mild from minimum 2.1 gr slowly increasing to 2.625 gr feeling like a mild 9mm luger load compact poly M&P Shield 9mm recoil but also started to ruin cases from ejection rebound at mouth in two spots 180 degrees opposite on last one to last two rounds in clip through the load max @ 2.925 gr. Barrel stayed incredibly clean.

    9MM Para/ Luger e3 workup:
    Test gun:
    Almost new factory S&W M&P Shield Poly frame 3.1" bbl 19.1 oz round count ~30.
    More brief on this one. No branded factory ammo ref just bulk poly bag plinking mfg'd local 125 gr RN. Unkn projectile type (unable to verify due to lack of labeling), performed erratically no accuracy @ 100 yds.
    Reloaded 115gr same as above 380acp bullet type here: http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c5...l_Bullets.aspx
    Cases full resize mixed headstamp once fired range brass. Winchester primers. OAL one load batch was 1.1515" to 1.165" for 4.4 gr in sweet spot but rest were 1.163"-1.169" . Steps up in .1 gr more agressive since 380acp went so well beginning with 4.1 gr e3 to max @ 4.5 gr. 4.1gr no issues felt weak was low @100 few feet occasonal flyer 1 to 2 of 5 as increased recoil was comparible to other 9mm factory loads. Increasing accuracy and small felt recoil inrease up to 4.4 gr which was the sweet spot including max load @4.5 gr. No case issues.

    Now for the jewel of the three:
    10mm auto
    Test gun Tanflugio EAA Witness Carry Poly 3.6" bbl 29 oz new, factory, round count 6 prior to test. Factory load compare was Remington UMC poor performance, sad really, wimpy 175 gr no accuracy @ 100 yds.
    Workup bullets same mfg & type composition as above Berry's cast plated FN in 165 gr, in once fired range brass full resize mixed head stamp OAL 1.254"-1.260" all pretty tight range consistent compared to other batches. No case / primer indications of over pressure. E3 start 5.0 gr to 6.2 gr max. 5.0 gr okay close range plinker not accurate consistent low about 2.5'. 5.3 gr to 5.9 gr sweet spot very wide increasing accuracy in rise @ 100 yds but very accurate otherwise. Only one slight flyer tight 1.2' grooping to start and 5.6 gr & 5.9 gr dead on. 6.2 gr max less accurate. Recoil was same trend no suprises.

    All in all very pleased with this Alliant e3 12ga shotgun powder in pistols.
    Last edited by AMT7; 03-28-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check