To sell or not to sell

[jeepyj]

I have a question that I'm sure that others here have thought about. A local has asked to deal for some cast Boolits. I really have never cared about selling ammo is a matter of fact I won't sell hand-loaded ammo. I have no problem giving it out while I'm there shooting among friends. But this is a little different this fella is a reloader that wants barter for some hand-casts for his own use until he gets his own casting setup.
Half of me says it's okay the other half says stay away from the liability.
Jeepyj

[salpal48]

I don't see any problem with that. If you have a product and your confident about it . and some one else want to buy it. go for it. It's the american way. But make it the best you can. and be proud of it.

[Sweetpea]

I believe that legally you have to have a ffl to sell them.

Others on here know more than I.

Don't know as I'd worry about it for a good friend.

Brandon

[mold maker]

Only between good friends and on the QT. Trading it out would be better so there is no money involved.

[Phoenix]

If it is only lead in the shape of a boolit then I see no issue. Loaded ammo is another thing entirely. You do not need an FFL to sell ammo. however making ammo and selling it wholesale or retail is another story entirely. From what I am reading it is just lead boolits he is selling/trading. I can see no issue there. The liability is on the loader not the caster. Is it possible that in some far fetched world that maybe someone could try to sue you. Maybe but there are ALLOT of commercial casters out there some just do it at home and dont have millions of dollars of liability insurance. I still dont see an issue.

I have a question that I'm sure that others here have thought about. A local has asked to deal for some cast Boolits. I really have never cared about selling ammo is a matter of fact I won't sell hand-loaded ammo. I have no problem giving it out while I'm there shooting among friends. But this is a little different this fella is a reloader that wants barter for some hand-casts for his own use until he gets his own casting setup.
Half of me says it's okay the other half says stay away from the liability.
Jeepyj

[220swiftfn]

Just boolets, no FFL needed, and liability for what?? Him dropping the box on his foot????


Dan

[runfiverun]

bartering is fine.
it's when you sell in volume [for profit] you got problems.
trading someone 50-1,000 boolits for something else is a non issue.

[P.K.]

Yup, barter is the way to go.

[Ajax]

18 USC § 923. Licensing
(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Attorney General. The application shall be in such form and contain only that information necessary to determine eligibility for licensing as the Attorney General shall by regulation prescribe and shall include a photograph and fingerprints of the applicant. Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:
(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer—
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices, a fee of $50 per year; or
(C) of ammunition for firearms, other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $10 per year.

18 USC § 921. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter

(10) The term “manufacturer” means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution; and the term “licensed manufacturer” means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(17)(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;


Andy

[historicfirearms]

Boolits, bullets, casings, and primers are not ammunition, no ffl needed to make and sell components. This came directly from an ATF agent in our local field office.

[dakotashooter2]

Boolits, bullets, casings, and primers are not ammunition, no ffl needed to make and sell components. This came directly from an ATF agent in our local field office.

And there are probably 10 agents waiting in line to tell you something different. Don't believe anything they won't (and they won't) put in writting.

(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;
This is the key..........

If you sell 5 boxes a year they won't even look at you if you sell 100 boxes a year they might........... Actually the non-shooters who are scooping up ammo in large quantities and reselling it for a huge profit could technically be prosecuted for not having an FFL.

[Down South]

I had a local here to offer to purchase cast boolits from me. He only had a few posts but had been a member for a couple years. Something just didn't seem right. I declined the offer.
If you are bartering, I don't think it would be a problem. But, it is your call.

[Wayne Smith]

I have traded boolits for a press and for the metal for my 03-A3. I have sent boolits gratis to many members. I would have little problem selling a few because, as a Psychologist in full time practice it would be a no-brainer to prove it is not my primary business.

[dakotashooter2]

You can always add "suggested donation"................. LOL

[WILCO]

the other half says stay away from the liability.

Listen to your "Other half".

[220swiftfn]

If you sell 5 boxes a year they won't even look at you if you sell 100 boxes a year they might........... Actually the non-shooters who are scooping up ammo in large quantities and reselling it for a huge profit could technically be prosecuted for not having an FFL.

The "scoopers" don't fall under this, they aren't "manufacturing", they're "reselling" already manufactured ammunition. As to whether or not a person is a "manufacturer", it is pretty clear-cut under the BATF's regs......


Dan

[Adam10mm]

Boolits, bullets, casings, and primers are not ammunition, no ffl needed to make and sell components. This came directly from an ATF agent in our local field office.

Really? You need to consult the Gun Control Act of 1968 which defines ammunition components as ammunition thus putting them in the purview of FFL licensing requirements. See 18 USC 921.17(a). Your ATF agent is a fricking moron that doesn't know the laws they enforce. There it is in plain English.

Here it is again in plain English that I've posted many times on this and other forums so you simpletons can understand it.

Ammunition components are ammunition as defined by the GCA of 1968. As such, which also established the licensing of ammunition manufacturers, manufacturing any ammunition component is subject to FFL licensing as an ammunition manufacturer.

Ammunition components are not ammunition according to the TTB (Tax and Trade Bureau) for purposes of Federal Excise Tax (FET) with regard to the Pittman-Robertson Act.

If you make components of ammunition you are required to be licensed as a manufacturer. You are not required to pay FET on ammunition components.

[jeepyj]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies. There was never a real doubt that if I was wanting to start this as any sort of business F/T or P/T that a whole bunch of bureaucratic red tape would be involved and for the most part for good reasons. Many years ago I was tying fishing flies commercially and paid the manufacturing tax on each of them so I'm aware that big brother is always looking for their share.
This was similar to bartering between friends however I really didn't know the gentleman that was attempting to obtain my cast Boolits. I was looking for other fellow casters who have wrangled with this decision before and I certainly don't want to cause and animosity among members. I guess at this point I'll just stock pile for my own use.
Thank all again,
Jeepyj

[garym1a2]

Is it worth the worry when you can not make much money casting unless you do very large volumnes. Plus if you make a boolit and the reloader screws up both the reloader and the boolit maker could be sued for damages!
The only way to make money in this hobbie is to sell scrap lead or scrap brass.

I only load for my brothers and told both of them if they let someone else use the ammo they will never get more from me!

[Adam10mm]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies. There was never a real doubt that if I was wanting to start this as any sort of business F/T or P/T that a whole bunch of bureaucratic red tape would be involved and for the most part for good reasons. Many years ago I was tying fishing flies commercially and paid the manufacturing tax on each of them so I'm aware that big brother is always looking for their share.
This was similar to bartering between friends however I really didn't know the gentleman that was attempting to obtain my cast Boolits. I was looking for other fellow casters who have wrangled with this decision before and I certainly don't want to cause and animosity among members. I guess at this point I'll just stock pile for my own use.
Thank all again,
Jeepyj

I started as a licensed bullet caster and stopped due to the volume it takes to do anything with it. I could get by hand casting for the locals in my small town area or just do specialized bullets for mail order. Thing is it's a lot of labor and people don't want to pay the actual value of your labor, so you have to meet halfway on a price and then rely on volume to do anything.

I know how it starts too. You do one guy a favor and pretty soon you have all his friends and family bugging you for bullets. Best thing to do in this case is let him come cast on your stuff. You show him the ropes and he makes his own bullets. When he gets his own setup, he's off to a great start.