loading a .680 ball.

[longbow]

"Why do the gun manufactures put a "forceing cone" in a dedicated slug gun?"

I doubt you will find a smoothbore barrel without a forcing cone. Most smoothbore barrels are intended for buck or slugs so a forcing cone is a good thing... for any sort of shot loads anyway. Rifled barrel is a different story, no forcing cone required and it is probably detrimental to good slug accuracy anyway.

A guy could probably get a smoothbore barrel blank and have it chambered without a forcing cone but I am guessing it would be a costly adventure. Also, since there are many rifled guns out there for not a bunch of money, if you want a dedicated slug gun then rifled is the way to go.

Some of use are just stubborn though!

Longbow

[KinkBreaker]

if a shotgun were to not have a forcing cone i would think it would cause more issues than it would solve.

it would seem that damage like that is most likely from shooting shorter shells from one of those up to 3 1/2" chamber where there is a significant gap before the payload meets the forcing cone

and thats just me thinking out loud. i dont have any actual education or first hand knowledge on the subject

[littlejack]

Pipe, that Winchester group is what everybody is lookin for. If you could take one apart, and match all of the componants, you would be good to go.
Oh yea, You may get better groups if you use a better grade of BEER can shim. Maybe some of that imported stuff. chuckle, chuckle.
Jack

[pipehand]

Jack, I'm getting close with the roundballs! I threw out a few to the low right, but there are 6 at +/- 1 inch c-t-c. This was using Winchester waa12 wads - the rest of the recipe is the same. I need to give the barrel a good scrubbing, as I think the factory slugs put a bit of lead in it. The spent wads look a bit more scuffed than usual, I think they might be dragging on the leading or other fouling.

I may load up a few more with the petals trimmed back 3/16'ths or so. The crimp with the Winchester wads looked better than the loads with the Federals.

Target was shot at 25 yards. I'd like to shoot a few more targets at that range with good results before heading to 50.

[KinkBreaker]

It's a beautiful thing really

[pipehand]

"It's a beautiful thing really ." Sure is. I think I was on the right track with the fouling. I gotta confess- today was the first time I gave Betty a thorough bore scrubbing. She did have a bit of lead streaking just forward of the forcing cone, but minimal plastic or powder fouling besides that. The cone may need a "polish" as well. One must remember that this is a budget home defense pump, not a Perrazi, so they left off the polished forcing cone.

As far as the wad scuffing goes, I can't remember where I read it, but some may be due to the hulls being used so many times. They do tend to roughen up inside, and probably don't release the wad as smoothly. I may have to buy some new hulls for this project. I also mangled up the crimp on a bunch of them before I figured out the second adjustment on the MEC.

I did find out that the WAA wads work, so that's a plus. I'm going to try the Remington hulls as well. I may use the black game loads for slugs, as all my buckshot loads are in the green GunClubs.

Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be like golf? You'll never be perfect, there's always room for improvement, its fun and addictive.

[longbow]

Looks like you are on the right track there. That is a nice group. If accuracy holds up, which it should with a round ball, you will get nice groups at 50 yards.

As long as the ball is launched well, you should get groups under 4" at 50 yards.

Looking good!

Longbow

[KinkBreaker]

How would one polish said cone? What would be the expected improvement?

[pipehand]

How would one polish said cone? What would be the expected improvement?

Not sure, but I bet Brownells has the kit. The improvement will be to take a rough taper and make it a smooth taper into the bore. Its got to be easier on wads. Especially since I'm using 2 &3/4" in a 3" chamber.

[KinkBreaker]

seems even simpler than that
after a quick trip around google
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...cone-questions

im hoping ill be holding my new lyman 678ball mold when i get home tonight soze i can get ready to shoot em this weekend.
i hope they at least perform better than the variable diameter balls i previously had

[pipehand]

KB, That's great that you ordered the mold. I did find the Lee Loader and the conversion for it, and the powder and shot inserts, so you won't have to do the field expedient method anymore. Brock will be able to load for the 16 gauge as well.

Thanks for looking up the polishing method. I may already have what I need to do that job. Even without spending 8 dollars at NAPA.

[longbow]

I was going to say a brake cylinder hone will do a good job too but it you don't have one they cost about $25.00.

Yeah, I have been fighting the same issue and have been planning on getting some 3" hulls to see if it makes a difference. When loading into shotcups it may not but I am betting with naked slugs and even balls (like 0.735" balls) that the longer hull will help.

I recovered several 0.735" RB's and most show a slightly uneven "belt" around their equator and some are very uneven. Generally accuracy was good though.

Longbow

[littlejack]

Those are some nice tight groups.

[longbow]

0.665" is a little small for good fit in a rifled gun unless the wad petals are very thick. 0.662" balls are a snug fit in some steel shot wads which have very thick petals and are supposed to work well in rifled guns. I don't have a rifled gun so have not tried but I usually cloth patch or use paper "shims" with 0.662" RB in regular shotcups in my smoothbore. Now that I have a 0.678" mould, no need because it is a perfect fit!

Longbow

[longbow]

excess650:

I think nitro card wads will work better than felt. If you don't have any, you can punch out hard cardboard disks and stack them, not as good but a firm support under the ball seems to work best for me anyway. Also, if you put a small scoop of COW on top of the nitro card wad that helps too. I have had pretty decent results using only COW under the ball in a shotcup but haven't really tested thoroughly because I have lots of nitro card wads.

My fit comment was aimed mainly at rifled barrel. I have gotten quite good results with quite loose fitting RB's in smoothbore. As long as they are centered in the bore and launched consistently accuracy should be pretty good from smoothbore. Rifled gun needs a tight enough fit to impart the rifling spin to the ball not just the wad. Mind you, a ball is easier to get spinning than a slug as the slug has more mass at the outside diameter so a ball may not require as tight a fit as a slug to avoid slippage.

I have limited experience with rifled gun but I got several 2" +/- groups at 50 yards with rifled gun and 0.735" RBs. I am told that RB's in wads can do as well or better if fit is good. My normal smoothbore groups run 3" to 4" at 50 yards.

Longbow

[KinkBreaker]

alrite,
i got the new lyman 678 mold in and made up 30 shells out of federal universal walmart cheapo stuff. just dumped out the shot put 1.5cc cornmeal and popped the ball in then folded closed. made 2 under 4" groups at 25 yards.
handily so no one can dispute my claim the pictures got deleted from my phone
used the rest of the shots to just make pop shots at a milk jug that was sitting out there around 60 yards, it got more hits than misses
sorry for the not very scientific range report

[Hogtamer]

Longbow, don't know if you saw my post about the 2 ball load, but I wound up with two .570 balls in the cup section only of a 20 ga wad, inserted into 12 ga. VP 65 multimetal wad over 31 grns 540. All in a 2 3/4 hull. I was pretty impressed at 30 yds. but thought some of you guys with more experience could pass judgement from a ballistic point of view. Attachment 69679. Could have used the wads again if I had too, manageable recoil but massive destruction.

[longbow]

Sorry, I haven't ventured into multi ball loads yet. I was planning on trying out the Dixie Tri-Ball home brew recipe that James gates passed on but I haven't got around to it yet. I also have a recipe for two 0.690" RB's too but that one is a real heavyweight and I would want to double check load data.

Been thinking about something like what you did using two 0.575" or maybe 0.600" RB's in 2 3/4" hulls but again haven't got to it yet. I have enough trouble getting slugs and round ball sorted out!

That target looks pretty good to me. I can't recall group size James says he gets with the Tri-Ball load but he also uses a tight turkey choke.

If the wads look almost like new then the fit is probably slightly loose. You might try a wrap inside the shotcup with a business card or a couple wraps of paper to snug it up a bit. That may tighten groups up even better.

I can't comment on the powder or charge as I have never used 540.

Looks like interesting load though.

Longbow

[jmort]

Got a .575 DC Lee Precision on order. I think a Duo-Ball .575 at 580 grain load at a higher speed is the way to go. Will probably try a Tri-Ball .575. Dixie is three .600 balls. They are close to 1000 grains, the .575's will be around 870. Still a fraight train.

[pipehand]

Got to do a little shooting today with the RB's. Still holding well at 25 yards, but when I backed up to 50, they were all over a sheet of standard paper. That's the load with the Winchester hulls, and Fed 12S3 wads. Its going to be a while before I can load up more with the WAA12 wads in some newer hulls.

Still pursuing that 3" at 50 yard load.