Has Anyone Made A Gas Check (Cap) Punch ?

[DoctorBill]

I am hoping this doesn't turn out to be a hunk of garbage scrap metal.....

Cutting the two slots on my H-F Band Saw.


Cutting the other side.


End result - needs to be finished with a hacksaw blade by hand.


i.e. the "Slot" has to be widened manually by cutting ACROSS the
two slots,
Something I missed in my original diagram - didn't see THAT when I designed it.
Guess I'll go eat worms.

I am surprised none of you machinists caught that.

I know - you wanted me to discover it myself......lol



CAREFUL ! That last part cuts real fast !



DoctorBill

[Rick459]

DoctorBill,
instead of cutting across the two slot's find a small file that will pass through the slot and open up both sides a little ways wider that the hole so it will support both sides of the aluminum strip when you slide it through. you will have more support with the two leg's still standing when you try to cut the check with the punch. hope i make sense. you do fine work Doc.
Rick

[Rick459]

i typed tooo slow...

[DoctorBill]

I used a Plastic Hammer - the Ram is tight now - have to re-hone it....

Should regrind the Punch Edge to a slight angle so it bites along one edge
first like a paper punch ram is made.

Later....re-ground the Punch Ram End as below and it cuts 10x easier !



DoctorBill

PS - Rick459 - THAT was the whole idea from the beginning.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post2157701

[Cane_man]

looking good DB, not bad for an old dr. phart ... did you make this punch out of aluminum?

and............ weren't you supposed to taper the end a little?

[DoctorBill]

Cane Man - "did you make this punch out of aluminum?"

Steel - Who would make a punch out of Aluminum ?

".... weren't you supposed to taper the end a little?"

Why do that ?

It needs re-honing to make it operate smooooothly.....

Yes - I am amazed that it works !

DoctorBill

[Cane_man]

Who would make a punch out of Aluminum ?

i did see that the honorable Edsmith (CB forum member) made some of his parts out of aluminum, just curious if you did as well...


".... weren't you supposed to taper the end a little?"

Why do that ?

some bolts or threaded rods are slightly tapered near the end, makes it easier to get the nut on for threading... thought it would be easy to do here, just put a little taper on the rod before you thread it... no biggie, looks like it is working just fine...

[Rick459]

nice clean job Doc.

[DoctorBill]

Now comes the "Forming Punch"

Have to think about THAT a bit.

I believe I will make it for use on my 1/2 ton Arbor Press.

The "Male" part of the Cup Forming Die is fairly easy.
Bullet's end diameter.

The Female Portion's hole diameter should depend on the metal thickness
of the Disks I am using.

The Female Portion has to take into account the Bullet's end diameter plus
2x the metal Disk Thickness or else it will cut the metal instead of forming it.

I may have to make several Female Former Parts just to see how my Gas Caps
work out, then settle for the best one - then make a "Pretty" one that is easy to use.



Have to figure out the marks to put on the Aluminum Strips to "Index" the
punching process - can't see what I am doing.

DoctorBill

[Cane_man]

Edsmith has a good formula is his pdf on how to determine the correct check diameter (the female hole- uh... you know what i mean)

do your discs fall out the top and collect below in dat green "catcher"?

are you going to harden the punch tip when you are finished with it?

[FrankG]

You need to know the bullet base diameter , bullet major diameter then choose material thickness needed .

[Chicken Thief]

Dumd me but, why didnt you just saw right through so only one side was attached?
The top only has to steer the foil and do not need any strength.

Heres how i made mine:






Now i can just trim the edge of the foil and pound on again.

[DoctorBill]

Chicken Thief - Why THAT Handle ?

"The top only has to steer the foil and do(es) not need any strength." - I don't think so !

The top of YOUR punch needs to be strong because when you ram the punch
upward, the shearing effect is AGAINST the top portion and the way you
have it, the force is against that one side part that you did not cut thru.

With a 'pillar' on both sides there is no rotational torque on the part that
you are pressing against. Your top part may bend at an angle.
Your uncut pillar can act as a hinge if enough force is applied.
Did that make sense ?

I decided to shear against the portion with the threads by going in the
opposite direction and use that "top" portion as the 'guide' for the punch
ram. No rotational torque (redundant ?) on the uncut pillar.

I guess that yours is strong enough if you don't punch out really thick
Aluminum. If it starts to bind on the punch thru, then I'd bet it bent slightly
and is no longer aligned with the ram.

OK ? Did I explain it, or make it more undecipherable ?

Other question from Cane Man - The steel for the ram was Hot Rolled
Rod.
Would that already be hard or do you think I need to heat it cherry red and
let it cool in air to further harden it ? ... or temper it, also ?

I am only punching out Aluminum and probably no more than 1,000 at most.
I don't shoot that much !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

Found a nice block of Steel that could have four different size or type or metal
thicknesses Gas Check Formers made in one block for use on an Arbor Press !



My intention is to make this in various inner diameters (Female Portion).



Started drilling the Female Portion today - after Muriatic Acid rust removal...



The marker holes I will use for later Punches. Used my DRO's to place them.
Love those cheap DRO's on e-bay ($35 ea).

I use ATF as a cutting fluid.

I need to buy some short Screw or Stub Drills - this Mini-Mill is small.
Damned glad I found it (used) though !

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

WHERE is everyone ? !

Watching TV ? Oprah Winfree or CNN ? Spongebob Squarepants ?

Me ? I'm drilling and drinking a beer and picking up this darned Swarf
that gets EVERYWHERE ! Even into my socks....



QUESTION - I am going to turn some 3/4 inch Hot Rolled Steel on the Lathe
after I dissolve the scale off with Muriatic Acid.

It is not quite ROUND.

How do I turn it without having it round to start with - how do I get to the center
for the Live Center to hold it ? How do I get it round if it isn't round to begin with ?

DoctorBill

PS - Look at this...fatality with a Lathe (no gruesome photos).
http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Researc...truckByBar.pdf

[DoctorBill]

What am I doing wrong here, you machinist guys ? !


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I just realized something !
Looking an internet link on How To Work On a Lathe,

http://www.autonopedia.org/crafts_an...e%20Lathe.html

I saw a diagram of threading....I thought - THAT's wrong.....using the wrong compound angle !

Nope....I (me) have been setting the wrong 29° ! I need to set 61° on my Compound !



Why did no one see that ? Hmmmm ?

All the Manuals say to set the Angle to 29° - Is MY Lathe angle dial screwed up ?

I am surprised that my threads have even worked at all !

They don't look like LEE's Die Threads and even my Machinist Friend never mentioned
about my threads....WOW !



I feel like an IDIOT now. You can open a window but you can't make someone see out of it.

DoctorBill

[Cane_man]

alcohol and machinery? come on DB, not a good mix

i tried threading tonight on my 7x12 benchtop lathe... massive FAIL! i could only advance the tool about 0.001 per pass or it would lock up, dont ask how i found out this limitation... i will salvage this disaster but i did learn some good lessons, and the gear change for the particular thread i was after was a PITA...

[DoctorBill]

Cane Man - One Beer (about all I can handle) doesn't a drunkard make....



Obviously, I am not anyone to comment on your threading problem

Perhaps if you take a digital picture of your set up, someone here could help. (?)

I tried my first threading on Aluminum Rod.
Once I got that worked out, I threaded an Aluminum Rod about two inches and it worked.
I had trouble with the Threading Dial business and that's why I went to the Hand Crank.

BTW - This is an informative YouTube link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfwdsBYJN34
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNajMA4I20A

The Change Gears are a true hassle to "change out" - but after doing it several times now,
it isn't so bad. I printed out the processes that are important and review them before
I do it again months later. I have a lousy memory for detail.

So - if you could photograph your setup, maybe you could get help here....

DoctorBill

Does anyone have a used MT2 Bull Nose Live Center they'd sell ?

[Cane_man]

no worries DB just giving you the needle i have been known to tip a few myself

thanks for the links i will check them out later, licking my wounds now and regrouping, i will get it eventually...

[Cane_man]

well db, if i cant thread with my wimpy bench top lathe then i may cheat and get a reloading die "blank" for $12.50 and go from there:

http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/...roducts_id=944