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Thread: Will these work for the 03A3 ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Will these work for the 03A3 ?

    I have not had good luck yet with my 03 shooting cast. I have tried .308 and .309 bullets to no avail.
    Tried lots of powders/charges and different lubes, all GC bullets.
    My bore slugs .3085 - .309 and looks new, CMP gauge is less then 1 muzzle wear.

    Should I try 170gr. Lyman 311291 sized .310 - .311
    Also would it hurt to try a 185 grain .311 RN for the .303 Brit. in my 03 ?

  2. #2
    Cast Hunter

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    What boolit/powder combinations were you using? What alloy? Did you get any leading in the bore?
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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Hard to say what your troubles may be without knowing condition of the throat in your rifle.

    .308 almost always too small. Mine like .310" best, but a worn throat may prefer .311". Try slugging only the first inch of your bore to see what you get. I take a case, drill out the primer for a 1/4" rod, then open the neck up to .312 or so. Slip the slug into the neck, insert into chamber and drive the slug in about half an inch. Then run another rod down from the muzzle and with the first rod held firm, give the muzzle rod a few taps to really expand the slug. Remove the chamber-end rod and the case, and drive the slug out. Measure. The boolit has to fit that part of the bore, or it'll never be accurate.

    For worn throats the 311041 sized as large as will chamber should work better. Worked well in an old Savage .303 that I resurrected recently. Wish I had a .311467 mould. That one also should work well in worn throats.
    Cognitive Dissident

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Will try to slug just the throat as described, it should be fine as the barrel has less then 500 rounds through it.

    As for loads tried:
    No idea of the alloy as I don't cast, but I get no leading, volocityhas been between 1550 - 1650fps.
    Have tried 170, 173, 180 and 185gr. boolits all GC'ed and .308 and .309 flat and round nosed.
    Powders used so far are 2400, 4759, of varying charges seated touching and just off the lands.
    I'm going to try 4064 since I have a lot of this powder.
    Best group at 50yds has been a about 1.5" but the norm has been 2" - 3" and would not call them groups

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I would go at least .311" for your boolits

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Alrighty, I slugged my throat, .309 - .3095
    Also scrubbed the bore good, I got out a very slight amount of lead, just some shimmer on the patch like a
    metel flake paint job but very slight.
    Thinking I need atleast a .310 Boolit ?
    Will a .311 be to big ?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Original iron sights? 1.5" at 50 yards is acceptable. I've shot well over 8K record rounds in military bolt matches, just about all with cast. These rifles will do 3" 10-round groups at 100 yards when you do your part. A really good group is 1.5" (10 rounds, 100 yards). A good barrel on a good rifle is limited by the sights and how well you can see (and to some degree wx conditions).

    I use RCBS 30-180-SP @ .310, SAECO #301 @ .310, and Ly 314299 @ .312 in my 'as issued' CMP 03A3 with 21.0/4227. All three boolits give satisfying results with many scores in the 290s/300 and many sub 3" groups.
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    My groups were with a 9x scope

  9. #9
    L Ross
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    Here's my sinfully easy 03 load that works well in all three of my 03's.
    Mil/surp brass segregated by head stamp, primer pockets swaged, Lyman 31R M-die to expand the necks. Loaded with the 155 gr. Lee sks bullet sized to .312" and checked. 16.0 gr IMR-4227 lit with a CCI 200 large rifle primer. One rifle is a 03a3 2 groove as issued, another is a 4 groove Remngton 03 in a C stock with a Lyman 48 long slide and 17 xna front sight, the last is an 03 sporter that was rebarreled with a new 2 groove barrel and sighted by a Texas made Weaver K-8.

    Duke

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Any good 03A3 will turn in excellent results with cast bullets if the basics are covered, which are;

    1. Make certain there is no build up of jacketed bullet metal fouling in the barrel.

    2. Use good 150 to 220 grain gas check bullets.

    3. Use an alloy of ACWW or harder.

    4. Use a powder charge of 16 grains of 2400.

    5. Size the bullets .310 or .311 (doesn't much matter which)

    6. Any decent bullet lube will work.

    If you can't a get decent groups with that formula, then there is shooter error or something seriously wrong with the rifle that needs to be run down, like loose screws in the rifle or scope mount.

    Once a fellow has proven his rifle and he can shoot with the above formula, he can then change each of the parts to suit his fancy, but only one at a time, so he knows what is causing the change, either good or bad.

    This ain't rocket science or voodoo...
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #11
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    I typically like my boolits to engrave on the rifling. The 311041 is an excellent boolit not only for accuracy but also for hunting. I size mine to .311 just as a rule. I dont even own a .308 / .309 sizer. And I have one rifle that will chamber a boolit sized to .314. I size to the throat, not the bore. The only exception to this practice is for my autoloaders, they get .311's sized and seated to where they have no contact and chamber freely. But all my bolt loadings have some resistance to them when I close the bolt. Also try to find some oversized (length) brass and try to fit the brass to the chamber. I havent run into this myself, but I have read that others with your symptoms benefitted from exact fitting brass as well as a good boolit. Just something you may want to try.
    I came into this world kicking, screaming, and covered in someone elses blood. I plan to go out the same way.

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    You may have a shooter/rifle issue rather than a cast boolit/load issue. I have six 1903's and 03/A3's and they all shoot at least reasonably good groups with a variety of boolits and powders using the issue sights.
    Make sure your scope setup is tight. The following are some 03/A3 accurizing tips via Bob S. that I've saved:

    The barrel must bear on the stock at the fore-end tip, called the "barrel bed" in the tech manual (it's called that for a reason). The term "float" is not used correctly in this tech manual, nor is it used correctly in the K31 manual, either. The term "float" in the tech manual is used to mean that the barrel is not "trapped", or clamped tightly between any two surfaces (like the stock and upper band, or stock and handguard).

    On the 03A3, the stock should not touch the barrel between the receiver and the barrel bed of the stock, where it should bear evenly upward. This is not "free floating", it is pressure bedding. For service rifles, the "up" force to displace the barrel from the bed should be about 4 lbs. (see para 45.a(2)(d) in the tech manual). The barrel guard ring should be clearanced from the stock so you can wiggle it when the receiver is tightened into the stock: it should not be clamped tightly between the receiver ring and the stock.

    For National Match rifles, the "up" force to displace the barrel from its bed was specified as 7-9 lbs. In 40+ years of building up Poor Man's Match rifles with 03's and 03A3's, I've found that even more pressure at the barrel bed ~on the order of 15 lbs~ is usually beneficial. In that time I've found only a handful of issue barrels that would group better if truly "free floated", and If I recall correctly, they were all pre-war barrels. The WW II contract barrels really need that damping.

    It's really important that the barrel is not "trapped" at the forend: you do need to be able to push the barrel clear of the barrel bed with the rifle assembled. It can't be "clamped" by the upper band or the handguard tennon. There has to be visible clearance between the top of the barrel and these parts. It doesn't need to be a bunch; about .025" is OK. If you can't push the barrel up about that much, then relieveing some material from the upper band and/or handguard tennon with a Foredom tool (or Dremel) is indicated. It is usually counter-productive to remove wood from the barrel bed of the stock to get this clearance, as you lose the needed pressure on the barrel here.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    hylander,
    In my 03-A3 I use the Lee 312-185 that was made for the .303 British and size to .311. The nose of the bullet slips into the muzzle of my rifle with lite engraving. This bullet with 2400 powder works very well.

    Ken

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for all thetips and advise
    Everything seems to point to a .311 boolit

    CMPShooter: My rifle is setup as that manual states
    I know it is not rifle or shooter error, This rifle shoots consistantly under .62 @100yds
    with several of my jacketed handloads and under MOA with factory Federal ammo 150gr. or 180gr.
    I'll get some .311 Boolits orderd up.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    hylander...true cast bullet joy will allude you until you start to cast your own.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    hylander...true cast bullet joy will allude you until you start to cast your own.
    I know, I know

    Finding lead is like pulling teeth though
    I can't find any lead available around here

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Hylander...As long as a fellow buys bullets, he is stick with what others want to make and sell. Quite often this is determined by the sellers profit line and convenience, and not what performs best in a real firearm.

    At the minimum buy a good used RCBS or Lyman lube size machine and buy your bullets "raw" or unsized, unchecked and unlubed. Most commercial casters will sell them this way at a discount price. Then you have control over the sizing diameter, bullet lube and gas checks. These factors will put you farther down the road to cast bullet joy that otherwise.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks Char
    What do I look for in a Lube machine, I have no clue what they even look like.
    I know what a Lee push through sizer is

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    RCBS and Lyman make machines that are very similar in design and use the same dies and nose punches. You can find these on Ebay or at gun shows. Go to Ebay and the maker's web sites to understand what they look like and how they work.

    I don't think one is any better than another, but the RCBS guarantee and customer service makes them a better choice.

    You can always pan lube the bullets and size them in a Lee push through die. Slow, messy, but produces bullets as good as with a higher priced machine.

    There are scads of threads on this site that discuss this issue. the "search" feature is your new best friend, but have to time to read and digest, there is lots of stuff here.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    x101airborne's Avatar
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    I have a couple hundred 311041's already cast up, checked, and lubed. If you would like to try some, PM me.
    I came into this world kicking, screaming, and covered in someone elses blood. I plan to go out the same way.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check