Precussion cap nipple replacement.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Had to replace the nipple on my badly neglected 1859 Sharps when I got it. The nipple was badly hammered "dry fired" till a musket cap would not fit.
Fortunately the breach block is removable. Several days of soaking in penetrating oil along with propane torch sessions directed on the surrounding block area convinced the rusted threads to kindly let loose. I did use the backwards 1/4 inch socket routine which was a big help.
An old shooter once said " For every year that old gun was neglected multiply your patience by that factor and you probably will get it working again".
Mike in Peru

[WOLF257]

Well this is a fine state of affairs...
Got the rifle back together, got my shiney new Lee Pro 4-20 Lead Melter delivered day before yesterday, got my bullet molds squared away and now there isn't a musket cap to be had anywhere local.
I think Mr Murphy has been by for a visit.
I've got about 30 pounds of pure lead so I guess I can go ahead and cast minies till I find a source of caps.

That's an interesting and somewhat disturbing observation Mike... since my rifles were put in storage and promptly forgotten about 140 years ago.
At the very least it doesn't bode well for the final outcome but since I have been shooting it without losing my face I figure I might be a little ahead of the game right now.
However, I'm glad you were able to get that nipple out out of your's.

[fouronesix]

With the most recent "components panic buying", even muzzleloading stuff has not been immune. I think all the stocks of caps are getting eaten into and have dried up in certain areas. I know the last time I ordered from Powder Inc., they only had the re-enactor, 4 wing (mild) CCI musket caps. I found some regular CCI musket caps locally but the last I checked, about two weeks ago, they were down to their last two 100ct tins! I see a few regular CCI #11 caps around here but I know the local wholesaler and he hasn't gotten a shipment of components of any kind in several months. Since CCI is fully ramped up trying to catch up with the high demand center fire primers, I doubt that muzzleloader caps are high priority for them right now- so may be a while?

You can put a #11 musket nipple on if you have access to #11 caps- it'll do in a pinch. Ughhh yet another work around!

[WOLF257]

I'll have to make a #11 nipple but I can get the 11's local at several places.
I suspect that most of the BP hunters here are using inlines with 209 primers which is why the 11's are still available.
Which brings up another question, I'm reasonably sure I know how to make "Betsy" work with those 209's but are they hot enough to set off the charge in the Enfield?
Would require making a special nipple but that's about all, my hammer has been dry fired so much over the years that there is what amounts to a firing pin in the center of the cup from where it was driven into the oversized nipple hole.
The last musket caps I found were the hot CCI's that had been sitting on the gunshop's shelf for quite some time.
I may have a line on some RWS caps but it is far from a sure thing.
There's a place online where I can order both the winged and slick RWS musket caps but I'll have to buy in bulk to justify the hazmat fee, of course a thousand caps would last for a while.
Maybe even long enough to get past this panic frenzy.

Jim

[fouronesix]

All you mentioned will work. I know the RWS caps are very highly regarded and if memory serves- they are very good. Haven't used them in 20 years because the CCIs have been so much more available.

That bullseye dimple in the hammer face is common and almost universal with old, well used cap locks. Never noticed that it caused any problems on the ones I have.

Yes, the 209s will work if you can cobble together a modified nipple and are, I think, more energetic than even the hotter old style CCI musket caps- just something to keep in mind in the design.

If nothing pans out, the 5/16-18 #11 nipples are available- about $6-7

[WOLF257]

I like the RWS caps, I've used a couple of tins and found them to be very reliable.
One of the problems here is that there simply aren't that many people involved in reenacting or musket shooting so a lot of the gun shops don't carry many muzzleloading supplies for the old guns.
The dimple doesn't seem to effect the function of mine either but it might serve duty as a firing pin for the 209 primers.
I checked Track and saw the 5/16-18 #11 nipples you were talking about, may just buy a couple of them but I'm still going to play with the 209 idea since those are so very easy to find and very cheap to boot.

[WOLF257]

fouronesix,
I know it's sort of outside the scope of this particular forum but do you have experience with the Nepalese Snider breechloader and if so, are they more trouble than they're worth as far as a shooting rifle?
I want one simply because that's the bridge between the muzzleloading P53 and the purpose designed Martini Henry breechloader but I know me well enough that if I get one I'm going to try shooting it if it's safe to shoot.
I see widely mixed results from those trying to get them to shoot accurately but I also see some widely mixed ammo combinations that these folks are using.
Any opinions from yourself and the forum members at large would be greatly appreciated.

Jim

[fouronesix]

No, I have no experience with them and are you taking about the 577-450? After talking to folks who have expertise and experience with the "provencial" foreign cache Martinis vs the standardized Brit versions they seem to have two common themes of advise. One is to always question the strength and safety of "non-standard" guns. The other is they generally report much wider tolerances in the specs. During that point in history, it was quite a leap from muzzleloader to standardized cartridge gun. You might peruse the other forums that have Martini or British Arms sections.

One of the issues as I see is the basic 577-450 cartridge. That is one bottleneck monster that tells me right off there is potential for problems. But, like anything else and with care and study, no doubt they can be made to shoot safely and effectively with the right ammo.

As another aside, given 20-20 hindsight of history, I have come to believe it would have been much more straight forward for designers to pursue the 577 Snider instead of jumping right into a huge bottleneck design like the 577-450. The Snider cartridge or something similar seems a lot like the 50-70 thus a much simpler R&D transition.

Kind of thinking out loud and that's not much help. An interesting topic for sure.

Pic is of a 577-450 and a 577 Snider. The 577-450 is a commercial Eley and the Snider is a very early foil case version.

[WOLF257]

Oh no, I've read quite a bit on shooting the Nepalese Martini Henry's.
It seems the biggest potential for a dangerous situation is trying to fire the factory loads meant for the British Martini Henry.
It looks like the Nepalese built guns have a slightly smaller bore diameter than the Brit built ones and my Francotte Martini Henry is no exception.
It slugged at .454 when many of the Brit versions have a bore of close to .460 and the factory loads have a lot more powder at 85 grains vs the 50 or so grains that I would consider a safer load.
A paper patched .452-405 sitting on 50 grains of F2 with wool wadding and a greased cookie should be perfectly safe in my rifle.
I have no idea of the history of my particular rifle but when I got it, it was packed full of yakmoline and has absolutley no rust damage of any kind, the bore looks like it was machined yesterday and all the parts, including the stock and forearm, have the same number stamped on them.
I wouldn't be surprised if this rifle was never issued and had spent all it's life in storage, it's in that good a shape.
Personally though, I'd like to get one of these and rebarrel it for .45 Long Colt since that round is much cheaper and easier to get and the 33 inch barrel should make it very accurate as well.
I expect it would be as if not more accurate than the .44 cal Winchesters and at 179 bucks plus shipping the rifles aren't terribly expensive either.

I was more interested in whether you had any experience with the .577 Snider breechloader since it's a converted P53 Enfield.
I want one for my collection but I'm not sure I want another problem rifle to try and dial in even though it might be easier to produce a consistent cartridge than a loose powder/minie combination.
I'd given some thought to buying another one of the hundred dollar "Broken P53 Enfield parts rifls" and making my own Snider.
Tools and materials aren't a problem and I wouldn't feel too bad about using one of these rifles to experiment on since that's what they originally did to make the Sniders in the first place.
Ammo wouldn't be a problem since 24 ga. shotgun shells are still pretty easy to get and barring that I can machine them from brass round stock if needs be.
I may call Legendary Arms up and see if they have something like a Snider parts rifle that's cheaper than the "untouched" rifle they have.
Their untouched Snider is 350 bucks but no telling what kind of shape the one I'd get would be in.
Considering I got lucky on the parts and untouched rifles I bought from them so far I figure it's about time for my luck to run out and anything else I get from them will be junk.

[fouronesix]

I have no idea of the history of my particular rifle but when I got it, it was packed full of yakmoline and has absolutley no rust damage of any kind, the bore looks like it was machined yesterday and all the parts, including the stock and forearm, have the same number stamped on them.
I wouldn't be surprised if this rifle was never issued and had spent all it's life in storage, it's in. that good a shape.

You are indeed fortunate! That sounds like a winner. With careful loading as you describe I'd bet it'd be a good shooter.

And none, zero experience with any of the Snider conversions.

You're right about luck when getting an as-is complete rifle. If one could only pick and choose in hand.

[WOLF257]

Actually you can pick and choose at their Atlanta facility as long as you call ahead and make an appointment.
I may break down and do it one day since I'm only 2 or 3 hours away.