Lino and Pure mix for Carbine 9mm?

[Utah Shooter]

I have been looking for the past couple of hours now and am not finding any answers! Is Hardball the best mix here or perhaps 2/1 pure/lino? I will also be shooting this our of an XDM as well!

[Doby45]

I shoot WC CWW in my 9mm AR.. Loves em, eats em like M&Ms..

[fcvan]

I don't have an AR but shoot a Camp Carbine. I'm running the same loads, Lee 356-125 2R cast from range scrap weighing 126 and sized to .358 over 5 grains of Unique. Pretty much the standard load for 9mm I've used since the 80s. They group nicely and are pretty darned quiet out of the 16" barrel. I'm dying to try some with plain based gas checks to see how the groups react. In my pistols they really tightened up. I also want to try the 356-102 1R with a PB check loaded a little warmer. They weigh 105 from range scrap and the check brought them to 109, also sized to .358 diameter. I ran some of those through two of my pistols and they were zippy fun. Too bad I didn't take the carbine with me that day.

[Utah Shooter]

Not trying to be rude but that is not really answering my question. I have no clue what WC CWW, 1R nor 2R means.

I understand the rest like the molds you are using. I am however not really understanding what mix I should use.

[fcvan]

Utah, nothing rude about a legit question. WC CWW usually means water cooled clip on wheel weights. Some folks type COWW that are either AC air cooled or WC water cooled. There are lots of threads on hardness levels that work best for this or that cartridge. Some folks like theirs hard cast, I have had good luck with softer alloy and a decent lube. I've used Javalina, 50/50 bees wax/alox, home made loob, and most recently, White Label BAC. White Label is a vendor here.

1R or 2R is the ogive radius of the boolit. A 1R is 1x the radius of the boolit diameter, 2R is 2x the radius or a longer rounded nose. Rifle boolits can be 5R.

As far as mixing Lino with soft lead, there are threads that explain how much Lino mixed with soft lead and tin would give you a brinnel hardness level of X. You can read a lot of threads on the various subjects for which you have questions and the answers are there. You can also do as you have done and simply ask. Most folks here are pretty good at giving answers rather than grief.

On the subject of 9mm carbine loads, I have read an awful lot about not trying to load the 9 for the longer barrel as most carbines are designed to run standard pistol ammo. Some of what I read discussed the operating systems being designed for the typical pressure curve of pistol ammo.

The 9 is designed to launch out of a pistol length barrel and so the expanding gasses have pretty much done all they can do before reaching the end of a 16" barrel. That may explain why my standard load seems so quiet out of the longer tube. Oh ya, the Marlin is a blowback and I believe the AR platform is as well. Someone who owns one would better answer that question. The only thing I've seen regarding improved velocity in carbines is using slower powders like Blue Dot which burned a little longer in the 16" barrel. I haven't tested that theory personally. Unique has been working well for me and so I've stuck with that powder. Keep the questions coming, I'm sure lots of folks will chime in with their wisdom and experience.

[newcastter]

I have been running WW 124 gr Lee tumble lubed over 3.8gr of Winchester 231 out of my Hi-Point 16" carbine, same as my handgun load and it groups very well and is very quiet. I have even used 3.8 gr of Promo/Red dot and it shot well but thats a dirty load.

[MtGun44]

Not shooting in a long barrel, but ordinary COWW (defined in other posts) in air cooled form, NOT hardened by
water quenching, works fine for me with the Lee 356-120 TC conventional lube design using NRA 50-50 lube,
a 'known good' lube. I recommend starting with it and making it easy on yourself. If you want to experiment
with lubes after you succeed, that is the time - rather than risk causing failure with some mystery lube.

As to the original question, you should be able to AT LEAST use a 50-50 mix of pure Pb and lino, and I
think you probably will succeed with 2 parts Pb and 1 part lino, but maybe not. Probably will need to
add a bit of tin to either mix to ensure really nice fill out of the mold. Assume 1% or less tin in the
lino and shoot to have 2% total tin in your casting alloy for wonderful fill out.

Bill

[williamwaco]

I have been looking for the past couple of hours now and am not finding any answers! Is Hardball the best mix here or perhaps 2/1 pure/lino? I will also be shooting this our of an XDM as well!

2/1 Pure/Lino would be fine but I would use 3/1.


.

[Lloyd Smale]

bullet in a semi auto has to make the jump into the chamber without damage. that usually means harder bullets. For semi autos you can use softer alloys but accuracy usually is better the harder you go. I will usually use wd ww or some other very hard alloy. If it were an alloy of lino and pure personaly if i could afford it id use straight lino and if i couldnt afford it only as much pure as i had to. Bottom line is the cheapest alloy that works well in most semi auto guns is wd ww. Also keep in mind that if your using top end loads your going to be running 2-300 fps faster in that carbine and that too will require a harder alloy. Now my opinion is based on accuracy. If all your doing with the gun is rolling beer cans at 25 yards about any alloy will work. I used to have about unlimited access to linotype and used it to alloy for about everything. Id mix it with pure to get hardness like ww ect. Anymore its just to hard to find and i cant see mixing it with pure to get something like ww when ww will do just as well. I use mine now only for making hard alloys or using it as is.

[Case Stuffer]

Everyone likes simple answers but most of the time there are non or atlease non that are accurate and work.

There are Sticky Threads with all of the data one would ever needed to learn what alloys,lubes,powders,to use to achive the best results with cast boolits.

I see many asking about alloy hardness but they do not undrerstand that sometimes to hard is worse than to soft ,they do not understanbd that faster burning powders tend to melt the base of the bullet worse thus leading to gas cutting, they do not understand that sometimes to hard keeps the bullet's base from expanding to make a good gas seal.

Most do not consider if boolits are going to be used in a revolver,a bolt action, a semi-auto pistol , a carbine which is blowback operated or gas operated.

If this were a Car forum some would post what are best tires for my SUV and some would answer Good Year.

Not trying to Preach but I have been active on different User's Forums for many years , I have read hundreds of thousands of post and have posted over 60,000 post. The most common thyme I see is that Sticky Threads contain most of the answers but very few use them.

See post here

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post1200223

[Utah Shooter]

Looks Like I am going to go 2 parts pure and 1 part lino. Wish me luck.

[jdgabbard]

I just got done loading up a test load for the Ruger PC9 carbine I have. Ideal .356402 sized to .358 and lubed with carnuba red. Seated to 1.110 OAL with 4.0gr of Red Dot. Judging by the charged cases, it looks as tho this is slightly compressed (read: the fluff taken out). And is a book load from the Lyman Pistol manual. I expect it to do well. But from pretty much everything I read about carbines (as well as have witnessed for myself), after about 50yds expect those groups to drop and open up quite substantially.

[Errokk]

As long as your not pushing passed 1600fps I would try COWW`s before I went adding anything else to the mix. It should suffice. And yes, slower powders used with the carbine will perform a little better.

[quilbilly]

My favorite "yard rifle" is my 9mm T/C Carbine with a 16" barrel. With open sights, it gets nice 1-2 inch groups at 50 yards with 4.6 gr of Unique and the Lee 125 gr 358 cal RNFP. I am not using a particularly hard alloy and have had no leading issues at the muzzle velocity of 1200 fps. I have had the velocities as high as 1500 fps without leading but the accuracy dropped off severely plus occasionally split cases. The 1200 fps will do anything I want it to do anyway. Accuracy does seem to drop off beyond 80 yards. It definitely does a number on coyotes in brushy areas where shots over 70 yards are very rare.

[dverna]

I used a "hardball" 124 gr bullet sized to .357 in a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 with 4.1 gr of W 231. It was a light load but it cycles well. For loading the carbine you may benefit from using about 7.5-7.9 gr of Blue Dot if you wish to use the longer barrel to increase velocity.

Bullet sizing is important - go .002" over bore. A softer alloy may work just fine so try it. My bullets were made from 'hardball' so that is what I used.

Good luck.

[Utah Shooter]

Funny you mentioned. That is the Carbine that I am looking to load for.

[dverna]

Utah,

I was really impressed with that little *** carbine. I bought it for my gf as a self defense carbine but she had trouble pulling back the bolt so I sold it to a buddy and he LOVES it. She is now looking at a Universal (M-1 copy) or an AR15.

You can get over 1300 fps with a 115 gr bullet out of that carbine and they are amazingly accurate for what they are.

[Utah Shooter]

So I took both guns out today to see about the mix. I got a bit of leading with specs all through the barrel. I would assume that I may need to change up the mix.