Surplus 4831?

[blaser.306]

I was just gifted the remaining 7 lbs of a paper sac that started off as a 10 lb "lot" that was priced @ $12.50 ! I received it from the original purchaser and have bee assured that it has been stored cool and dry always! The powder itself looks like factory fresh and has little to no smell to it at all. From best recolections of the owner the powder would be at least 20-25 years old. My question to those that know is , Are there any additional precautions that I should be taking when starting load work up due to this powders age or shall I just begin with the standard 10% reduction and work my way up watching for presure signs. Thanks in advance.

[Sam Johnson]

blaser.306 Here is an earlier post on same subject.
castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?185675-Surplus-4831

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

CAUTION/DANGER/BEWARE!!!!!

Yes Blaser.306, You must be VERY careful to not point a firearm using that powder at anything you do not want distroyed, cause something is going to get hurt, BIG TIME.

I think you have just been gifted a valuable stash!

A friend and I split a bag full of 4831 powder, years back, for which we paid the huge sum of 50 cents a lb. Those were the days my friend.

A couple days ago, I started to go through a departed friend's stash and in it is some H4831 in cardboard containers and priced at just under $5 per lb.

This powder is like yours, looks clean and bright but has little to no smell.

Providing there are no signs of the powder breaking down, dust or funny color or smell etc., USE IT AND BE HAPPY! Start as always with "starting loads" for the powder in use and work up from there.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[blaser.306]

CAUTION/DANGER/BEWARE!!!!!

Yes Blaser.306, You must be VERY careful to not point a firearm using that powder at anything you do not want distroyed, cause something is going to get hurt, BIG TIME.

I think you have just been gifted a valuable stash!

A friend and I split a bag full of 4831 powder, years back, for which we paid the huge sum of 50 cents a lb. Those were the days my friend.

A couple days ago, I started to go through a departed friend's stash and in it is some H4831 in cardboard containers and priced at just under $5 per lb.

This powder is like yours, looks clean and bright but has little to no smell.

Providing there are no signs of the powder breaking down, dust or funny color or smell etc., USE IT AND BE HAPPY! Start as always with "starting loads" for the powder in use and work up from there.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Thank you for pointing out the obvious! I however am most concerned with the powder having "dried out" and not knowing if this will make the active ingredients to be in a higher concentration by weight than when factory fresh! And as far as the 50 cents a lb, this powder was likely around the same vintage as it sold for $1.25 a lb here in Canada from a now long gone gun store. I beleive that he sold ALOT of powders from large containers as re packaged. The very first shotgun powder I ever bought was from him and came to me in a small plastic bag inside of an empty Rodgers syrup can with the pry off top. Good times!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

You are likely correct or close in the time line, but I'd sure give that powder a go if it was me.

Keep us posted as to the good results!

CDOC

[TCLouis]

I gave someone my last 2 lbs of milsurp 4831 from the 60s.

He said he was looking for some as it produced the most accurate loads in his 270 Winchester of any powder out there.

This powder was 50 cents a pound (delivered) when purchased also.

[runfiverun]

the milsurp 4831 burns different than the new stuff does.
find one or two favorite rifles and cherish every shot with the stuff.
I have about 2 pounds of it left.
i was burning it up in my 30-30 with a 311041.
it has to be the quietest 1800 fps I have ever s errr heard.

[blaser.306]

I guess what I need to know in fact, Do I use IMR 4831 start data or H-4831 start data to be safe?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Use the H4831 state data.

CDOC

[blaser.306]

Use the H4831 state data.

CDOC

Thanks , that is what I needed to know. Now to wait untill the 6 foot snow drifts and subsequent flooding have left our range to see what kind of results I can get. Thanks all !

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Blaster,

The surplus 4831 or H4831 is slower then the IMR4831. Not by a great deal, but enough that the Max listed loads of the H are usually a few grains higher then the IMR Max..

Now, the H or IMR 4831 may not be the optimum powder for you firearm or caliber, but with a great many centerfire, "high Velocity" rifles IT will get the job done.

I have used one of those powders for years, and in everything from a .243 up to the 300s.

Now, in the years since I have owned a chonograph, I have been more concerned with velocity, although groups were still #1 in importance.

However, expecially in a "push comes to shove" time such as we are currently in, and who knows how long until things get better - if they do -, you could use the H4831 and never miss a meal due to the use of that powder.

Yes, other powders maybe better - only testing can tell you - but H4831 can get er done.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[skeettx]

I am Blessed, a friend just gave me THREE sealed one gallon paint
cans of the Milsurp 4831, yeeeee hawww
Mike

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well Skeettx, as I said above, that may not be optimum in your firearm, but you will without question get er done and won't miss any meals.

Way to go! In this day and age, that is a huge bonus!!!!!

I like H an IMR 4831. Must be why I likely have close to 10 lbs on the shelf. May not be the best, but boy is it ever good.

And ya know, when I'm saying it may not be optimum, we are still likely talking about results that would meet or exceed the results of millions of factory rounds that have taken millions of game animals. Yep, one of the good ones!

CDOC

[Monttexan]

As long as its been stored correctly the "old" 4831 will work just fine. My dad bought lots of it back in the 60's. When I was a teen (1980's) it was pretty much what he used in any rifle even if another powder might give better velocity. He had bought it cheap and didn't need to buy something else without need. Loads were tuned for accuracy (j-words) and we went hunting! When visiting him last summer he gave me a 25-06 he had custom made in the early 70's along with the dies, brass, j-words, and his load data for the rifle. He also gave me a few pounds of 4831 since that's what all the loads used. He still has at least one unopened canister of 4831 too.....its always consistent. As I understand it, the IMR 4831 was developed to take the place of the H4831 when the surplus started to dry up....could be mistaken on that.

[Rick Hodges]

For my way of thinking it is the best powder for a 7mm Rem Mag. for 154-165gr. jwords. The new manufactured H-4831 is slightly faster than the milsurp and IMR4831 faster yet. I also use it for top end loads w/ 95-100gr. j-words in a 6mm Rem. What a great gift.

[1Shirt]

Yep, used to buy it in a paper bag like that from Hogdens in Shawnee Mission, Ka.
1Shirt!

[Fluxed]

Shoot it, don't save it.
Its already old.
Great powder.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Very Good point, Fluxed!

CDOC

[Idaho Mule]

Heck, I'm certain if you were thinking it may be hard to get lit off because it's so old that CDOC would be happy to offer you some fresh BE just to throw in the flash pan and get er lit off!!! JW

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Awwwww now Mule, Not everyone needs my Bullseye & ??? duplex loads, it is mostly reserved for that bunch from Ideeeeho, ya know the bunch that live over on the North side of the mountain, the ones that only crawl out from under the rock on really bright and sunny days.

Of course, not throwing stones at anyone I may know and love, at least not big stones.

Some of their rifles are sooooo old They can only shoot half bullets in em and a healthy charge of Bullseye makes up for the pressure loss and there by decreases the frequency of bullets being stuck in the barrel.

CDOC