Reduced loads with black powder

[anthonytrkr]

I am shooting a 45-90 Sharps with black powder. If a target load is desired do I reduce the powder charge, and seat the boolit deeper in the case, or use a filler to eliminate the air space? My understanding is the black is best with slight compression. To much jump from the case to the lands will reduce accuracy. What's my options?

[Nobade]

Either granular filler or a wad stack. Have to experiment a bit to see what the rifle likes the best. Card stock, cork, LDPE plastic, rubber gasket material, bullet lube, etc. Lots to choose from!

-Nobade

[nwellons]

Grease cookies will eliminate leading and take up case space. If you never have leading problems, they may be too much trouble to make compared to the other options.

[anthonytrkr]

What type of granular filler could I use? Can granular filler, and card stock be used together? How much space can I fill?

[GuzziRider]

One thing you might try would be in a case as large as the 45-90 would be to use 1F granulation. In my 45-110 this makes for a good target load for competition work. With 2F loads the 110 is a bear to shoot but would do a dandy job of killing one. Long range accuracy is better with the 1F loads as well, the 2F shoots fine for hunting ranges but for gong matches the 1F is best. In the case of the 45-90 that may not be the case but it should give you an reduced velocity load with out having to change seating depth, just used enough 1F to give you a full case under your standard length load.

[Nobade]

What type of granular filler could I use? Can granular filler, and card stock be used together? How much space can I fill?

Cream 'o' wheat works well for me. Yes you can use that in conjunction with a wad stack if you feel the need. Fill all the space, keep everything compressed at least a little.

-Nobade

[rockrat]

I use grits, more consistent than corn meal, I believe

[montana_charlie]

I am shooting a 45-90 Sharps with black powder. If a target load is desired do I reduce the powder charge, and seat the boolit deeper in the case, or use a filler to eliminate the air space?

I find the load the rifle shoots best with a 540 grain bullet. I see no need to reduce the charge for target shooting.

I seat the bullet to a given depth, and compress the powder more ... or less ... to get it all under the bullet.
The lightest charge I have used in my 45/90 was 75 grains of Cartridge (like 2F) while the heaviest was 88 grains.
In all cases the bullet seating depth remained the same ... and no filler was required.

You may be making things more difficult than necessary ... unless you are talking about 'gallery loads'.

CM

[Lead pot]

I am shooting a 45-90 Sharps with black powder. If a target load is desired do I reduce the powder charge, and seat the boolit deeper in the case, or use a filler to eliminate the air space? My understanding is the black is best with slight compression. To much jump from the case to the lands will reduce accuracy. What's my options?

If a .45-2.4 is to much recoil then maybe a calibre of a lesser case capacity would be more appropriate like maybe a 38-55, 40-50 1 11/16BN, 40-65 WIN. instead using a filler in a black powder cartridge.

[fcvan]

I used to shoot an 1858 Remington Copy with 30 grains which seated the ball close to flush with the cylinder. Then I read about using corn meal as filler to prevent chain fires. I started using 25 grains and topped with corn meal just enough seat the ball flush. The balls fired with the same authority as the 30 grain load and the bore stayed cleaner. Corn meal is cheaper than powder and being able to fire longer strings between cleaning is a plus.

[Battis]

I use grits on top of a card in my 50-70, or lube pills that I make in an unusual way. I make up a batch of paraffin and beeswax in a double boiler, then pour it while hot into a brass tube that's the same diameter as the 50-70 barrel (plug one end). When it cools I push it out and I now have lube sticks, from which I can cut any thickness that I need. I don't have a pic of the 50-70 tube but this is how I make the pills for my BP revolvers:

[bigted]

I see no reason at all not to load any charge you desire in any case with just a couple exceptions. try very hard to leave NO air space in your column and expect a decrease in accuracy until you get to a sweet spot for your rifle. corn meal ,, grits ,, cream-o-wheat ect. will work well to ok as long as you heed the instructions of many...NO AIR POCKETS. load your desired powder charge and then fill to around 1/8th to 1/4 inch past the base of your SEATED boolit...use a compression tool to compress the fill so as to be able to fully seat your boolit to the desired depth.

many things can be added for fill just remember that whatever you decide to use ,,,configure it so there is no pockets of air. also know that with lower amount of powder there seems to be more fouling so you will need to deal with your fouling control.

good luck and report back with your reduced loads and success with them.

[mrcvs]

What percent of the cartridge should contain filler? I have only loaded using straight black powder in numerous rounds, and had good success, except with a .32-40 Winchester 1894. Well, the group is okay, but 4 inches high at 50 yards. I have the ladder sight on a carbine, and cannot go lower. Makes me wonder what you could ever shoot with that firearm, using the ladder sight at all. Am using a 170 grain cast bullet. I was thinking of starting with 25 grains FFg and then using 15 grains of pulverized rice grains. ( I had rice that expired in 2011 and I just pulverized it to the consistency of Cream of Wheat in the blender).

Also, would adding filler tend to lower bullet placement, or cause it to shoot even higher?

This firearm shoots horribly with smokeless powder, and yet it has a good bore.

[rfd]

i think that reduced bp loads might have their place at short/medium distance matches, as long as the rifle likes the load you concoct. we have 3 or 4 annual 200 yard matches where this could simply save on the powder needed for a .45-70/90/110, etc.

perhaps load the case with a reduced bp charge, and then compress the brass with one .030" wad. then use a lube ribbon extruder to lay out a 1/8" band of lube and then use the loaded case mouth to create a 1/8" lube wafer, followed with another .030" wad, then seat the boolit (hand pushed in or die pressed in). the cookie would not only take up space but maybe help with fouling control. sounds reasonable, but there'd be a buncha testing to confirm such a cartridge would be accurate at match distances.

[mrcvs]

I am using grease cookies. For now, I would like to just try filler. For .32-40, would ~25 grains FFg and ~15 grains (such that the load is compressed) of my rice pulverization work?

[country gent]

Iuse cream of wheat for filler in my 45-90 to get down to 45-70 loads, saves on powder and recoil. WHat I did was wieght oit the diffrence in powder charges and make a dipper for that volumne of powder. I then dropped the lighter powder charge into the case a tight fitting .060 napa rubber fiber wad, this keeps powder and filler seperate. the dipper of cream of wheat and a playing card wad then compress to normal depth and seat bullet. Had to experiment a little to get to best accuracy but it is doable and works. As long as the pulverized rice is consistant it should work.

[mrcvs]

Why does powder and filler need to be kept separate with a wad? Couldn't I just load the powder first and follow with the pulverized rice?

[country gent]

Its mainly for consistency reasons. granulated type fillers directly on top of powder grains inter mix some then a little more when compressed. and maybe some more thru vibration or handling but is it always the same amount? Does the mixed powder burn at the same rate? These are negated by seperating the powder and filler with a wad. The wad on top offers protection to the base of the bullet. Keeping everything the exact same as the ones before and after is the key. Powder inter mixed with an inert filler burns diffrently than straight powder.Powders and inert fillers have diffrent densities causing settling issues, the heavier material tends to settle lower and faster than lighter. Another reason I cant prove or disprove is the wads front and back tend to push the fillers out more completly leaving less crud in the barrels. I have noted less fouling issues with the loads using fillers in this manner also. Wether the seperated wads are acting as srapers or the filler is absorbing the fouling I cant say but the effect is noticable and there. I use cream of wheat and it may have a scrupping effect in the solid band also. Another thing to keep in mind, In the food industry when we had to blast clean in production ( where the food was processed/made) rice was used as the medium instead of sand or beads. Not quite as aggressie but did a great job of cleaning to weld or rebuild equipment with no non food stuff conaminations.

[mrcvs]

Any suggestions as to the ratio of filler to black powder?

[rfd]

Any suggestions as to the ratio of filler to black powder?

i'd think that'd depend on the caliber and boolit used, and a fair amount of experimenting to find the ratio of powder to filler that - [1] gives you the amount of recoil reduction you may be seeking, and [2] the load yer rifle likes best, for the most consistent accuracy at the shooting distance in question.

i also wouldn't just dump the filler on top of the powder without a wad separator.