Newest issue of Handloader

[DeanWinchester]

Anyone read Mike Venturinos column in the latest issue of Handloader about cast bullets in milsurp bolt actions?

I'm sure this guy is more educated than me but these articles make me question why I keep buying this rag. I guess I need SOMETHING to read while taking a dump.

He states that dark bores typically do not shoot cast bullets very well. Huh? All my milsurps have dark bores and they shoot VERY well. He states that slugging the bore (and even though he doesn't state the fact, I bet he doesn't care what the throat diameter is either) is typically not necessary. Reeeeeally?
He believes in a very stout crimp. Uh, why? Enough to hold the bullet in place sure but why so much? I saw a picture there and that's a lot of crimp. In my experiences all I ever get from that is a shaved boolit, but what do I know.
Now, powder is a hot debate and 5744 is a good powder but I balk at the claim it's the best all around starting point.
Then he says he only uses straight Linotype because he wants them HARD. In all I've cast and shot I've never seen a need for anything THAT hard until you get velocities way on up there. If you have a PROPER fit and a good lube like Bens Red or equivalent I've been all over the low to mid 2K fps area with air cooled wheel weights and nary a hint of lead in the bore.

It's no wonder so many people give up and so many people find their way here.


Maybe I'm wrong, I'm certainly not an accredited journalist but I just keep seeing stuff like this and I KNOW people are reading it and taking it for hard fact. Reminds me of the claims that pure JPW could be used for 44 mag bullet lube. Really, someone read that, tried it and wondered where all that globs of lead in their bore came from.

They could stand to hire some of you guys to their writing for them.


.....now somebody comes along to flame me for being a sass mouth little bstd.

[sparky45]

I think you got it about right DW.

[Boyscout]

I know a target shooter with about 2000 lb of linotype and he cast most of his rifle bullets with it. Perhaps Venturino has the same type of access and neither hunts or has to deal with creating his own alloy for anything other than Mil-surp or Black Powder competition. I have lots of wheel weight and a new source for linotype so I am interested in achieving results from what I have on hand starting with wheel weights usually. I don't compete but I would like to be accurate. I will be hunting whitetail with my own cast bullets next year so I trying to find loads that have a max BHN of 15 (Alloy #2) and going down from there as long as I can keep accurate and using a more available source of lead.

[cbrick]

Perhaps you'll get some answers right from the source, Mike is a member here.

Rick

[Harry O]

As long as the rifling is full height from front to rear of the barrel, I have had no problems with accuracy in dark bores. We are not talking target range groups, but it is at least as well as average groups from a 60 to 100 year old service rifle. If the rifling "dips down" between the front and rear, I don't expect any accuracy. The major problem with dark bores is cleaning. They hold **** in the pits through many, many cleaning patches.

[DeanWinchester]

As long as the rifling is full height from front to rear of the barrel, I have had no problems with accuracy in dark bores. We are not talking target range groups, but it is at least as well as average groups from a 60 to 100 year old service rifle. If the rifling "dips down" between the front and rear, I don't expect any accuracy. The major problem with dark bores is cleaning. They hold **** in the pits through many, many cleaning patches.

All the more reason to give it a thorough enema. Something the writer went on record as calling unnecessary.

[Piedmont]

About 12-15 years ago I was heavily into shooting milsurp rifles and I read one of his articles suggesting linotype was needed to get up the feed ramps. I had been using softer than wheel weight and had no problems. In another article he let the cat out of the bag. He had a big score of linotype so he used store bought 1-20 for his blackpowder stuff and linotype for everything else. He will tell you in his articles that you need linotype for auto pistols too.

This is the guy Lyman commissioned to do their most recent cast bullet manual because he is the expert gunwriter on cast bullets.

It would be preferred if he said this is one way to do it or the way I do it but he comes across as authoritative and then ends up misleading lots of folks.

[MtGun44]

Lino works great in rifles, unless you want to hunt with it, and he is not. The cost is
apparently low enough that he isn't looking to reduce it. So, for him - it is a good
choice.

For other folks, there are different answers. MANY ways to "skin a cat".

The dark bore part does not match my experience, either. Otherwise, I see no
untruths, just differences of choices in the range of possible solutions.
Bill

[BruceB]

I've enjoyed John Wayne's movies for decades.

That said...... John Wayne was an ACTOR. He was not making movies about his own life; he was acting out STORIES written by someone else. His own accomplishments in the REAL world were limited, at best (unlike, say, Audie Murphy).

As to the name, "Duke", Mr Wayne held no copyright, and I have personally met a number of men called "Duke" in my lifetime .....as well as a HERD of dogs with that handle.

Mike Venturino has a considerable number of SHOOTING-RELATED accomplishments under his belt, including some very successful books which have become standard reference works in the field. He is also a respected competitive shooter.

HE IS ENTITLED TO HIS OPINIONS. If y'all disagree with his opinions, that's fine.... but to demean his qualifications, and even his NAME, is a severe and undeserved mistreatment of a gentleman.

Mike, if you read this, I apologize for the comments by some here, which do NOT reflect the opinions of all members at Cast Boolits.

[Ajax]

Personal attacks on any member here will be dealt with. We do not allow personal attacks, that includes a persons name. Any further comments need to reflect that.


Andy

[olafhardt]

After I got started casting and got to this and some other forums, gun magazines are just places that hold the ready cartridges . I am in the process of selling off my back copies.

[dromia]

Whilst I find Handloader's articles being increasingly cursory and shallow, in keeping with this 21st century's post modern attitudes. To be fair to the author in that article he relates his way for his purposes, which he clearly states, making ammunition that would fit any rifle of the same calibre with military accuracy then in the context of that his approach is valid and as it obviously works for him. Its not how or why I use cast for my military rifles but for him it is an approach that works and as such is a valid as any other. Living with differences can help you learn a lot. Dismissing them can be to your detriment.

[44man]

I like Mike even though long ago we had a few little disagreements, water over the dam so to say.
I wish he would post more.
About military rifles in general, I am amazed and have been all my life about how good they shoot. Just how did they turn out billions of them with such accuracy? Just a decent bore will shoot along with anything made today.
We have opinions and it is a dis service to any man to say bad. I know all about it, I have a few on other sites that disagree with every word I say, just personal and not good for those that need info to try. Those that need to be the King and Mike was never like that, he is a nice, easy going person.
Show respect.

[DeanWinchester]

I certainly didn't start this thread to assassinate the man's character. Personal attacks are not me and very un-gentleman like.
I just really disagreed with the way the article was presented. I could do that face to face with the guy and still drink a beer with him. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, in fact, controversy is healthy to finding real answers.
Formal apology if I sounded like I was insulting the man personally.

[MT Gianni]

I did glance at the articles in the magazine rack and realize I could be just as happy if I did not own this issue either.
Mike is a great guy in person and IMO does a lot about getting people to try cast in rifles as oppossed to so many other authors. There are too many that shoot cast and write it up who would not know which end ot the ladle to pour from as they bought all theirs.

[Larry Gibson]

I've enjoyed John Wayne's movies for decades.

That said...... John Wayne was an ACTOR. He was not making movies about his own life; he was acting out STORIES written by someone else. His own accomplishments in the REAL world were limited, at best (unlike, say, Audie Murphy).

As to the name, "Duke", Mr Wayne held no copyright, and I have personally met a number of men called "Duke" in my lifetime .....as well as a HERD of dogs with that handle.

Mike Venturino has a considerable number of SHOOTING-RELATED accomplishments under his belt, including some very successful books which have become standard reference works in the field. He is also a respected competitive shooter.

HE IS ENTITLED TO HIS OPINIONS. If y'all disagree with his opinions, that's fine.... but to demean his qualifications, and even his NAME, is a severe and undeserved mistreatment of a gentleman.

Mike, if you read this, I apologize for the comments by some here, which do NOT reflect the opinions of all members at Cast Boolits.

+1 here, well said Bruce.

If we look on page 36, bottom left hand paragraph of Mike V's article in question he states he does not "experiment" with cast bullets anymore (assuming for "battle rifles" since that what the article is about) because he has developed a "relatively simple but effective procedure".......and it works for him. He also states in that article that shooter should/could slug bores, make chamber casts and scrub the dickens out of the barrels for probably better accuracy. He uses the same loads for multiple rifles of the same cartridge to. So what? I thought the article was informative to the general run of the mill reader of that magazine. I'd bet if we wrote articles with the many times anal things we do the articles would not get published because few readers would understand and the magazine wouldn't sell. Got to remember the bottom line for Handloader is selling magazines and I've no problem with that or Mike's article. I actually agree with most of what Mike said in that article.

Larry Gibson

[Sweetpea]

Seems to me the article could be taken several ways.

It could come across as being lazy, and that he might be happier just shooting jacketed.

Or maybe he has a really good source for lino, or too much money.

Or the most likely, he doesn't have a whole lot of time to fiddle with each gun, so he found a way that usually gets him where he wants to be in the shortest time possible.

YMMV

Brandon

[Char-Gar]

When evaluating an article or speech, we should consider the audience. Mike V is writing for a very broad range of readers, most of which have little or no experience with cast bullets. This is not place to fill the article with mind numbing detail and "yes but" and "except when". He is painting with very broad brush and is not aiming his writings at the denizens of this board.

Placed into the proper context, Mike does a very good job. It would be well to lighten up on the guy, for he is one of us and have earned the respect of shooters and bullet casters. He has earned his spurs, paid his due, made his bones and has the creds to put whatever he wants into print.

[462]

We're individuals and our casting, reloading, and gun-related techniques and standards reflect that. As is posted, here, so often: "Your mileage may vary." And, "What works for me may not work for you."

In the article, he states that he uses Linotype because a friend has a large supply, and they have a trade arrangement.

While I disagree with some of what he wrote in his chapters in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and Handloader articles, I have no reason to publicly disparage his writings, or nickname (which, though I've forgotten how it came about, has nothing to do with John Wayne, by the way).

[45 2.1]

As far as painting with very broad brush.... that is called white washing.... and is not aiming his writings at the denizens of this board.... but has done that in past articles.

That is why people have such a hard time getting results, from old wives tails and poor information getting repeated time after time.